European Union page
Shouldn't there be a page for the European Union as well? Since some things, such as the currency, are common to most (if not all) EU countries, it would seem like a good idea to put this information in a single page, which would then be linked to from each country page. -Timo
How do I get to Prague?
So right now you can't get to any of the Eastern European destinations from the Europe page-- Prague, Budapest, etc. I know the whole "Eastern" vs "Central" Europe thing is a can of worms, but we gotta do something with it. I have to say I've never heard "Central Europe" used to describe these places, thought I get that it's a PR/image issue. But we do call Bombay Bombay because that's what the majority of travellers are going to look for, can't we do the same with this? I'd say it would be a good point to include in the Understand section of course... Majnoona 21:27, 29 Feb 2004 (EST)
Table of European Union Membership, Schengen, Euro
I am not certain that changing the layout of the Country section of this article is a good idea. I have seen something similar and think this is almost boardering on a copyright violation. See WikiPedia:Economy of Europe for a similar table. Could someone explain why it should not be reverted to what it was previously. -- Huttite 20:57, 3 Jan 2005 (EST)
Just a formal note.
Ten new members of EU are party of Schengen Agreement. Just not all rules apply yet.
Member States already apply common rules in these areas under the Schengen agreements. These intergovernmental agreements have been incorporated into the European Union following the entry into force of the Amsterdam Treaty and now form part of the Community acquis to be adopted by the applicant countries. However, most of the Schengen acquis will not be applied to the new Member States as soon as they join but later, once this has been specifically decided by the Council. This is the aim of the plan of action for adopting the Schengen criteria on the basis of a realistic timetable for implementing the Schengen Agreement.
The efforts in matters of exterior relations are principally directed at expansion while taking account of the extent of the task and the time limit provided.The ten new Member States (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Malta, Cyprus) should have integrated the Union’s entire acquis in the field of justice and home affairs by 1 May 2004, the date the treaties of accession signed 16 April 2003 come into force. However, certain provisions concerning the Schengen acquis will not apply, in particular those concerning the connection of the ten new States to the Schengen Information System and the dismantling of internal border controls.
If your visa is from a country fully applying the Schengen rules, it automatically allows you to travel to the other Schengen countries as well. (...) You may need a national visa to visit Ireland, the United Kingdom and the new member states. Some new member states accept Schengen visas or Schengen residence permits so check with their consulates.
www.europeancitiestourism.com & www.europeancitycards.com
What do you think about adding these links to the page?
-- JanSlupski 17:24, 8 Feb 2005 (EST)
Turkey? European Turkey?
If we say European Russia, I feel that we should say European Turkey as well. Portion of Turkey that lays in Europe is relativelly small. --JanSlupski 17:09, 21 Mar 2005 (EST)
I do not agree. The leftmost column is meant to host country names, and there is no country as "European Turkey". It is true that in geographical terms, Turkey has divisions in Europe and Asia, but it is a country as a whole in the context of this page (travel / transportation). The facts and figures concerning this country in this context do not just apply to a region, but the whole of it (Turkey as a whole is an official EU applicant, or Turkey as a whole is in the Inter Rail zone G). AtilimGunesBaydin 17:48, 15 Oct 2005 (EDT)
1.The EU is an organisation which can expand beyond Europe's boundaries. There are also some countries which are not in the EU (e.g. Switzerland) but are clearly part of Europe. It does not make sense that we use EU membership as the criterian for being part of Europe.Yzerfontein 11:02, 29 Jan 2006 (EST)
2. Istanbul is generally regarded as being the geographic boundary of Europe. It is also generally accepted that part of Turkey is in Europe and part in the middle-east. Yzerfontein 11:02, 29 Jan 2006 (EST)
I believe both "European Russia" and "European Turkey" names are kind of confusing, suggesting that they may be actual country names or the information presented in the other columns may only apply to the part of their land located in Europe. I believe it would be more appropriate and less confusing if we change them to actual country names and specify in the footnote that only some part of them are located in Europe. --386-DX 08:12, 8 January 2007 (EST)
Mediterranean Europe Name Change
We need few clarifications on this (do we know it already? how can we get official info?)
--DenisYurkin 08:22, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
The french island of Reunion, located east of Madagascar, is also part of Europe.
The photograph is quite murky. I think it could be edited, so there are clearer differences between the landmass and the sea... 126.96.36.199 13:17, 26 Nov 2005 (EST)
Bulgaria and reorganization.
With all do respect here, this map uses a quite wrongful division of Europe. First thing that comes to my mind - Bulgaria is not in Eastern Europe in the sence you present here. East and West are not what they used to be. East used to mean communist, and West democratic. Even Greece was labled Western Europe under that criteria. But it's time to categorize Europe within cultural and historical limits. If you follow the old criteria then you should put Serbia, Macedonia and all the other ex-communist countries in Eastern Europe too. Historically, culturally and geographically Bulgaria is in Southeastern Europe a.k.a. the Balkans. Serbia and Macedonia don't even have a coastline, they are landlocked!!! Not to mention the Med sea. Bulgaria had Med sea coastline to the south, before it lost it to Greece in WWI. Now the Med is only 30 km away from the south border with Greece. Second of all, I think the whole map needs to be reorganized. You can not group East and West Med together! They are very different. We need a Balkans or Southeast Europe category (or east Med if you will). Then you also need to put a Baltics cetegory - also different from Eastern Europe in a sence.
I read it so what? You proposed it...but it makes no sence. Bulgaria has very little in common with the East European states. Geographically it is in South Europe. Med sea is like 30 km way from the south border. Used to have Med sea coast till WW1. South Bulgaria has Med climate. Culturally and traditionaly a South Europen state. Part of the Ottoman Empire and so on...name something in favor of placing it as E Europ.
History, tradition and culture should play the major role in grouping the states. Grouping a southern country like Bulgaria with a nothern country like Estonia is deceiving: far away, nothing in common, diff climate, tradition and culture. Oh yea they share the same time zone...but so do Egypt and South Africa...lets put them in E Europe too!
Hey Mark. I make my request base exactly on what a traveller would expect to see in Bulgaria. I say that the whole grouping here is flauly. I certainly would not mind if Bulgaria is put into the BALKANS group (we need to create it first). Actually, I am FOR that. It is the best solution actually. Because Bulgaria is 100% Balkan state. My point is that Bulgaria has very little and sometimes nothing to do with the countries it's grouped with here - diff. culture, history, architecture, tradition, climate, customs and so on. On the other hand, Bulgaria shares alot with the rest of the Balkans - almost identical culture, traditions, climate, history, architecture and so on.Even the languages of the southern Slavs are for most part mutually comprehensible if yr a native speaker of one of them (except probably between Slovene and Bulgarian being the two ends of the language subgroup). My point here is that if one is exploring, let's say ex-Yugoslavia he/she may decide not to cross the border with BG coz it falls into a different region of Europe - a traveller would expect to find something different in Bulgaria, something similar to Russia and the Baltics...but for most part he/she will come accross cultures so close to those of the rest of ex-Yugoslavia that they are hard to distinguish.
Here is a site with pics from BG...u tell me if this falls into yr understanding of Eastern Europe look esp at cities like Veliko Tarnovo. http://www.pbase.com/ngruev/bulgaria and the coastal cities...like Nessebar... http://www.beachbulgaria.com/nessebar/index.shtml http://bulgaria-travelguide.info/
Eastern Europe is the last thing that comes to my mind when i see those photos: http://www.beachbulgaria.com/img/big/16_5.jpg or http://www.beachbulgaria.com/img/big/16_0.jpg or http://marvaoguide.com/
Western Europe (Iberia, UK, France, Germany, Benelux, Swiss, Italy), Northern Europe (Scandinavia, Iceland, Baltic states), Central Europe (Poland, Hungary, Czech R, Slovakia, Bulgaria and Romania), Eastern Europe or CIS (Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Caucasus), South Eastern Europe (Balkan countries, Greece). All respect, but Turkey is not part of Europe.
Russia, Caucasus and Turkey appears both on Asia and Europe list. Please consistency!
How Portugal be in one group with Serbia ? Switzerland and Germany in Central Europe ?
Curreny division of countries is misleading travelers. One can not travel from Bulgaria to Estonia with passport or entry visa for Bulgaria, you need to get many visas, but you can travel freely around Central Europe region or Eastern Europe region.
Those people who are expecting similar culture and experience in Portugal, Serbia or Albania might be misleaded. Wikitravel should be updated with realities of the world as well as recent political changes.
Length of visit?
In some section we should have something that explains how long you can stay in Schengen Agreement countries. For example, lets say you're from a country allowed in w/o a visa, you get the 3 month limit. If you've stayed in Spain and your 3 month limit is up, can you go to Morocco for a few days and come back and then your 3 months is reset? I would add this myself but I am not sure of how it works. (Lizz 15:09, 11 July 2006 (EDT))
Colors on the map
If somebody were editing the map, please consider also changing the colors (esp. for Mediterranean Europe). Why not try for example: Color 1 Color 2 Color 3 Color 4 Color 5 It'd be more readable this way. Or I can do it if there is the map source available somewhere. CandleWithHare 15:11, 20 August 2006 (EDT)
Kissing patterns guide
Up to some time ago, each country had an entry detailing the kissing patternes when greeting: right cheek first in Italy and Corsica, men kiss each other in Italy and Southern France, kiss a girl when introduced to her in Spain but not in Italy, three kisses in Switzerland, four kisses in Paris, and so on... it was useful and interesting, why has it been systematically removed??? 188.8.131.52 08:22, 13 April 2008 (EDT)
European Union talk page
Moved from Talk:European Union
I know that there's no "I". Nevertheless, I'm not sure about visas and wanted to remark that.
--Evan 10:59, 6 Dec 2003 (PST)
I've included the following in the article about Germany:
Germany is a member of the European Union and the Schengen Agreement. European visa policy will be covered in the article about the EU. In brief, a visa to any other signatory state of the Schengen Agreement is valid in Germany too. No visa is required for citizens of other EU member states, and those of some selected nations with whom the European Union or Germany have special treaties. Inquire at your travel agent or call the local consulate or embassy of Germany.
Also, there are no border controls between Germany and other Schengen Agreement nations, making travel less complicated.
If you replace Germany with $localcountry and edit the bit about EU membership, this may make a good paragraph to include in all EU and/or Schengen Agreement signatory countries. Before we spread it out, however, someone else should have a look and edit it. -- Nils 14:59, 13 Apr 2004 (EDT)
The Schengen agreement is made to lift the compulsory borders controls and mostly to have a single visa stamp for nationals of non EU countries. This is why for instance a Brazilian national can enter Portugal with a Schengen visa, travel freely to France, but cannot enter the non-Schengen UK. It does not mean that borders may never be checked. There are often border controls between Schengen countries: Spain/Portugal, Spain/France, Belgium/France. If you travel by train from Germany to Holland, you may have a passport control done by Dutch border policemen, while the train is crossing the German/Dutch border without stopping. This is meant to look for criminals, illegals and drug trafficking. Also, the Schengen visa is valid for traveling, not for emigration. Ex: An Argentine living legally in Spain, with a valid residence/working permit, is allowed to travel through all the other Schengen countries but cannot work in Schengen countries other than Spain.
I don't think we can say that only Greek Cyprus is a member state. Officially, the whole of Cyprus is. Of course, practically, as a result of the recent referendum, it's a complete other thing. That's why I included the note. It's the same as in Wikipedia, but those are my exact words (I'm still Dhum Dhum there). Akubra 15:58, 3 May 2004 (EDT)
EU Eurozone and Shengen
So we've got three groups -- European Union, countries that use the Euro, and the Schengen Agreement countries that have some sort of common visa setup. They overlap heavily, of course, but my understanding is that no two are exactly the same. UK is in EU but does not use Euro, Norway is in Schengen but not an EU member, and so on.
Do we need three maps? Or one map showing how they overlap? Or maybe a table, countries down the left and three columns for status?
I created an HTML table for this data, see User talk:Pashley/Playpen. Is it up to date? I just took data from existing article. Is there a better way? Wiki table? Or can someone do a map? If there's nothing better, maybe move the table into the article? Pashley 10:11, 1 January 2008 (EST)
I think it might now be up to date. I did a little web searching, found various countries joined Schengen Jan 1 2008, so table is now more up to date than the article. Pashley 10:33, 3 January 2008 (EST)
No comment, so I added the table in the "understand" section.Pashley 08:19, 22 January 2008 (EST)
Re "cents" vs "cent", Wikipedia quotes that For English language texts, however, there is a recommendation from the Directorate-General for Translation, the EU's translation service, that the natural plurals 'euros' and 'cents' should be used in non-legal documents intended for the general public. See wikipedia:Linguistic issues concerning the euro. Jpatokal 22:25, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
What underlies the regional classification of the Europe map. Appears quite POV to me. Is it possible to at least specify a reference where the grouping in this way has been taken from? 184.108.40.206 18:32, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
I just rolled back a change by an anonymous user whose explanation was "Removed map, which was factually inaccurate". We certainly need a map and I see nothing obviously inaccurate, except perhaps that the projection used makes Norway look far larger than Italy, but then I'm no expert on Europe. Can the remover, or others, please comment here? Pashley 13:49, 18 October 2008 (EDT)
At the map, Serbia has the color of Eastern Europe. However, in the article it's said to be in Mediterranean Europe. I don't mind which we choose here, but it should at least me consistent. The image also called Serbia "Yugoslavia", which is now incorrect. Globe-trotter 15:11, 22 September 2008 (EDT)
Cyprus Schengen agreement
It says in the table that Cyprus has implemented the Schengen agreement. This link  shows that Cyprus did not implement the Schengen agreement. Should it be changed or is there something I am unaware of? Globe-trotter 07:53, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
² Kosovo (administered by the UN) uses the Euro as its official currency.
I don't see the "2" somewhere, where does it refer to? Globe-trotter 15:06, 31 October 2008 (EDT)
Regions? How arbitrary is that?
Why Poland is not Eastern Europe when it is far more eastern than Serbia? Why Bulgaria is not South Europe and Macedonia is? What's the point with making the regional classification on the first place?
France with Bénélux?!
I have some difficulties to understand the purpose of considering France+Bénélux as a unique same region?... You might say that France borders Belgium; well that true but France borders also many other countries with more lentgh. Is it about cultural similarities? well, appart Wallonia that can share some geographical and cultural similarities with Nord-pas de Calais region, most of Benelux is defined and dominated by Dutch culture. Dutch culture is a "north sea culture" light years much more similar to northern German's or English's ones than to french one absolutly all aspects (germanic language vs latin language; protestant influences vs catholic ones; "north sea" culture vs mediterranean culture; architecture, food (beer vs wine culture); etc. For those reasons, the association of Netherlands with France is complelty misleading: is really Amsterdam more in the same region of Europe than Marseille or Corsica? despite having huge cultural divergences the Both countries (France and Netherlands) do not even share a common border; nor a similar geographical position (Netherlands lies just in front of the UK, with a simlilar culture and climate than England; but deeply different with France. Us, french people we consider Netherlands to be northern European country, in the same group than UK, Germany and Scandinavia, but would never thing being part of the same sub-group inside Europe. France might share language with about 40% of Belgium (1/6 on Benelux only), but share almost nothing with Dutch-speaking part of Benelux. France also share it language with a part of Switzerland, but it is no a reason to lump France with central Europe... Geographically and culturally France share much more with Italy or Spain (to which it has its longest borders) than with Netherlands, with which it doesn't share any particular cultural affinity or geographical ensemble (not sharing north sea culture and geographical position; not same climates; not same language and dominant religious traditions!) France would much better reasons to be associated with Italy and Spain (with which it shares similiar language, catholic traditions, bordering the mediterranean sea, historic and cultural links to the roman empire... and long common borders! not with a "distant" northern European country like Netherlands!