Talk:Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay

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Revision as of 07:58, 6 September 2009 by Pbsouthwood (talk | contribs) (Headers and titles)
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Given the consistency, thoroughness, and extreme speed with which this article and its companion article have been written, I am more than concerned that this material is being copied from a book, though of course I have no way to prove it since my Google searched have found nothing so far. Texugo 04:47, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

Text below Moved from Talk:Dive sites of the Cape Peninsula and False Bay after article merge


Given the consistency, thoroughness, and extreme speed with which this article and its companion article have been written, I am more than concerned that this material is being copied from a book, though of course I have no way to prove it since my Google searched have found nothing so far. Texugo 04:45, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

Peter Southwood, has his name on a number of articles[1] written about the bay, so I think we should extend the benefit of the doubt here, though it would be nice with some confirmation Peter? --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 17:41, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

Hi all, The material is as you guess being copied from a book, but this is not a problem in this case as I am the author, and the book has not been published, for reasons explained in more detail in my talk page User_talk:Pbsouthwood in response to these same users above. Cheers, Peter. Pbsouthwood 12:28, 10 August 2009 (EDT)

If you want to confirm my claim, it should be possible without too much difficulty to search for a Cape Town dive shop, and mail them to ask if they know of me and my book project. It is possible that some will not know what you are talking about, but a couple of tries should get a hit. If you do this, I would be interested to know how many tries it takes. Cheers, Peter. Pbsouthwood 15:01, 10 August 2009 (EDT)

If anyone has an idea for a substitute for "Topography" to use as the heading for the section about what the site is like from a physical layout aspect, I would like to consider an alternative. Pbsouthwood

Headers and titles

Since we're in new territory allowing you to creating all these articles for dive sites, I'd like to voice a few concerns. I think we need to standardize and wikitravelize some things before there are too many more of them. It might be good to make a new article template to sort of match the other types of articles we have, seeing as how there are at least several dozen more of these coming our way.

  • Article titles - I don't think "CT Dive site Blablabla" is a good way to title these. I'd say let's leave out "CT Dive site" and just use the name of the place, then have the first line of the article say (as it does with other articles) "Blablabla is a dive site in city/region name".
  • Headers should match our standard headers when possible:
  • Understand, not About the Region
  • Get in and Get around, not Getting around or Access. Position should be included in Get in
  • Stay safe, not Hazards
  • Contact, not Emergency contact numbers
  • Put features and marine life under a top-level See header
  • Put explanation of the name, topology, conditions, depth, geology, skill level etc. under a top-level Understand header

I'd like to hear some opinions on this before we have hundreds of them to deal with... Texugo 03:42, 17 August 2009 (EDT)

Mm-mm, I don't think dive sites are "destinations" in the Wikitravel sense, it's probably worth developing a custom template for them.
At any rate, I think the most sensible thing to do would be to merge this article into Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay and have the individual dive site entries as districts (subarticles) under that, eg. Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay/Geldkis Blinder. Jpatokal 06:14, 17 August 2009 (EDT)
I agree with Jani's naming scheme, though I'd like to see if we could come up with a shorter, but still appropriate name, for the top level article? I also think we should develop a template - where should we start up a discussion about this? --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 07:02, 17 August 2009 (EDT)

I did not notice all this discussion before, but thanks for the comments etc. I have merged the Dive site list into Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay as recommended. Oddly enough, I did it before I saw this, because it looked like the better way to go. We are thinking alike here. I also started Wikitravelising the section headings, and will continue to do so. I will try to finish this before inputting the lesser dive sites. I agree on the usefulness of a template, and have been cutting and pasting a home made text boilerplate template. a real one would be better, but I have no idea how to make it. If you can come up with a better name for the top level aticle, I will be most interested to see it, I have been thinking about that for years. I see I have a lot of editing to do. The site names as subarticles sounds like a good Idea, how do I do that? The problem is that even in this one region there are ambiguities in site names, and over a larger range this will be worse. Names like "Bell buoy" "Pinnacle" "Roman Rock" "Long Beach" etc come up frequently all over the place as dive site names. If someone can do one of the sites to demo I will clean up the rest. Is there a maximum size for an article before it should be subdivided? Cheers, Pbsouthwood 08:12, 31 August 2009 (EDT)

I have wikitravelised headings in main article to some extent and reshuffled content to suit. Need more inspiration. Will now have a go at one of the sites. Pbsouthwood 09:06, 31 August 2009 (EDT)

I have now also wikitravelised the site CT Dive site North Paw and CT_Dive_site_Coral_Gardens_Oudekraal and I would appreciate comment on whether this is OK or if there are more recommendations. I will try another site or two to see if the new layout has any problems, but would prefer not to invest too much time changeing the bulk until a consensus is achieved on at least something that will be near to a final layout. Cheers, Pbsouthwood 10:02, 31 August 2009 (EDT)

Would it be appropriate to use IsPartOf to link the dive sites back to the main article in this application. I have seen that it is inappropriate to use it for a range of things, but it looks like it might work in this case. However I have no idea HOW it works, so I am guessing... Cheers, Pbsouthwood 11:48, 1 September 2009 (EDT)

I have worked out how to do it and have started the changeover. Most of my questions have been answered in the process. It will take a couple of days, but I like it much better than the original, so worth the effort. Cheers, Pbsouthwood 08:01, 3 September 2009 (EDT)
I have also worked out how to make a template and have done so. See Template:Divesite intended to be used as a substitution template. I have tested it on Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay/Finlay's Deep and it appears to work satisfactorily. I have included a lot of comment text to help a new user get the hang of it. Pbsouthwood 16:10, 5 September 2009 (EDT)
Your wikitravelization is coming along, and the template looks pretty decent. A couple more things:
  • I think it would be perfect if you could swap the Stay safe and See sections, to have the same section order as other articles.
  • Let's take the image out of the template. Other templates don't have image prompts, and they are pretty ugly when they aren't filled in.
  • Remove the Gallery section. Unlike Wikipedia, we have decided against using these, not least because travelers often access Wikitravel from low-bandwidth internet cafes in third-world countries where waiting for a lot of pictures to load is inconvenient.
Texugo 23:04, 5 September 2009 (EDT)
I have swapped the Stay safe and See sections in the interests of uniformity.
At this stage I would prefer to leave the one image in the template to serve as a reminder that without that information the site description is incomplete. In exceptional cases it may not be needed, and can simply be deleted. The image prompts in the existing sub-articles are there because I have either an image to upload, or I have an image in mind, which I am hoping someone else will upload. There is still a long way before I finish with the currently available text and images.
I have removed the Gallery section from the template, and will go back to the sites to clean that up.
Thanks for the useful comments. Pbsouthwood 03:54, 6 September 2009 (EDT)

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