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==Archives===
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==Archives==
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Oof! The editing of CIA data suggests that this article is ripe for [[Wikitravel:How to de-factbook a country page|defactbookization]]. Anyone up for it? --[[User:Evan|Evan]] 23:40, 4 Jan 2004 (EST)
 
Oof! The editing of CIA data suggests that this article is ripe for [[Wikitravel:How to de-factbook a country page|defactbookization]]. Anyone up for it? --[[User:Evan|Evan]] 23:40, 4 Jan 2004 (EST)
  
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::::: Please don't use "USD", which is a currency code, not a word.  "US$" is the correct abbreviation for "US dollar". [[User:Jpatokal|Jpatokal]] 01:37, 26 March 2007 (EDT)
 
::::: Please don't use "USD", which is a currency code, not a word.  "US$" is the correct abbreviation for "US dollar". [[User:Jpatokal|Jpatokal]] 01:37, 26 March 2007 (EDT)
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::::::Wasn't sure where this should go on the discussiong page, but the entry about using a cell phone SIM card does not match my experience in the past month.  CellCard sells cards for around $2.  It's pay-as-you-go.  They take a copy of your passport and have you fill out a form, and that's it.
  
 
==Respect==
 
==Respect==
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Agreed, with one exception: taxi/motodup/tuktuk drivers. Especially in the larger cities, they try to rip off tourists. It has happened to me on several occasions after walking away from a driver they came after me, dropping the fare they asked by half or even 4 times. [[User:hopha|Hans Hoppe]]
 
Agreed, with one exception: taxi/motodup/tuktuk drivers. Especially in the larger cities, they try to rip off tourists. It has happened to me on several occasions after walking away from a driver they came after me, dropping the fare they asked by half or even 4 times. [[User:hopha|Hans Hoppe]]
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 +
I second Hans Hoppel's comment about drivers in Phnom Penh and Siem Reap.  Especially around the backpacker or tourist areas, they will try to convince you (beyond bargaining) that it should be that expensive.  Persistence and be willing to walk away often leads them to agree to a reasonable price, but not always.  Also, be absolutely sure they've agreed to the price before you get on.  If they just ignore you or kind of nod, they're going to try to get more out of you at the end of the trip.  It's true about not bargaining down to bone in the markets, as well.  Aiming for a middle ground where both of you are happy usually works out for the best.
  
 
==Tipping==
 
==Tipping==
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::You should use the e-visa. I'ts very easy and reliable. Especially if you want to enter Cambodia via land. The behaviour of the staff at the Cambodian checkpoint is unbelievable meanwhile. Its a terrible rip-off. Especially at the border point Trat/Koh Kong. They accept only Thai Baht (although it cost 20 Dollar). I got a report that all travellers of one bus had to reimmigrate to Thailand and go to an ATM to get Baht. And nobody can stop that cause Koh Kong is far away from Phnom Penh. I wrote a letter to the secretary of the ministry of tourism about the situations at the border checkpoints and the embassies cause he asked for a report but its still not possible to get this under control. I go to Cambodia every year and get feedback from many travellers. If you enter by plane you can get your visa on arrival at the airport of Siem Reap or Phnom Penh. This year I spent a week in Kuala Lumpur before going to Cambodia. You can apply for your visa in KL. It takes only one day and costs 80 Ringgit (around 20 Dollar). Its really easy and a good option. -- [[User:DerFussi|DerFussi]] 08:42, 19 February 2009 (EST)
 
::You should use the e-visa. I'ts very easy and reliable. Especially if you want to enter Cambodia via land. The behaviour of the staff at the Cambodian checkpoint is unbelievable meanwhile. Its a terrible rip-off. Especially at the border point Trat/Koh Kong. They accept only Thai Baht (although it cost 20 Dollar). I got a report that all travellers of one bus had to reimmigrate to Thailand and go to an ATM to get Baht. And nobody can stop that cause Koh Kong is far away from Phnom Penh. I wrote a letter to the secretary of the ministry of tourism about the situations at the border checkpoints and the embassies cause he asked for a report but its still not possible to get this under control. I go to Cambodia every year and get feedback from many travellers. If you enter by plane you can get your visa on arrival at the airport of Siem Reap or Phnom Penh. This year I spent a week in Kuala Lumpur before going to Cambodia. You can apply for your visa in KL. It takes only one day and costs 80 Ringgit (around 20 Dollar). Its really easy and a good option. -- [[User:DerFussi|DerFussi]] 08:42, 19 February 2009 (EST)
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::: It really depends how far your are from the Cambodian Embassy in your Country. The EVisa at 25$ means to spend 5 dollars more which might be easely spent by travelling from yr home to the Embassy. I think EVisa is worth. {{unsigned|119.82.253.137}}
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:::: The situation is the same as [[User:Jpatokal|Jpatokal]] made out back in 2009: most nationalities can get the visa on arrival at the land border or airport. Therefore the extra $5 is an unnecessary expense.[[User:Travelpleb|Travelpleb]] 08:17, 26 May 2012 (EDT)
  
 
==Regions==
 
==Regions==
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I think this makes sense but comments please! --[[User:Burmesedays|Burmesedays]] 03:12, 26 November 2009 (EST)
 
I think this makes sense but comments please! --[[User:Burmesedays|Burmesedays]] 03:12, 26 November 2009 (EST)
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:Comments from anyone who has been to Cambodia or has an informed interest in the country really would be appreciated as I have a good looking map pretty much done aside from the regional borders. --[[User:Burmesedays|Burmesedays]] 05:15, 1 December 2009 (EST)
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::I won't claim to be an expert on Cambo, but calling any region spanning Siem Reap "Dangrek Mountains" seems a little odd to me, as the area is flat as a pancake, and this is the only part 99% of visitors to the region see.  Would "(North)Western Cambodia" be too misleading? [[User:Jpatokal|Jpatokal]] 04:07, 3 December 2009 (EST)
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::: Point taken although a fair bit of Siem Reap ''province'' is mountainous and the Dangrek Mountains span the north of it.  But as few visitors ever get further north than Angkor, I guess it could be confusing. North-Western Cambodia would be fine for me.  Another option would be to split the Siem Reap province with the flat bit going into Mekong Lowlands and Central Plains.  Have you been to Laos Jani?  If so please have a gander at my regional proposal [[Talk:Laos|there]]. Cheers.--[[User:Burmesedays|Burmesedays]] 08:20, 3 December 2009 (EST)
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:::: Done and map uploaded. Comments are still very welcome. I think it works quite nicely now though. --[[User:Burmesedays|Burmesedays]] 23:10, 5 December 2009 (EST)
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== Regions - list of cities policy ==
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 +
I note that [[Sen Monorom]] was added to, reverted from and then again added to the cities listed against [[Eastern Cambodia]] in the Regions section. This occurred while I was contemplating where this city was best placed because it had previously been put into the city list and then reverted simply because there were more than 9 cities listed. So what is the policy for including cities in the regionlist that are not also mentioned in the '''Cities''' section? - 10:22, 3 January 2010 (EST)
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: I am not sure I understand that question. Do you mean which cities can be added to the regionlist table in the country article?  If so, I would say that with a country like Cambodia where there are not, nor ever will be, too many, the answer is all of them. Looking at the edit history, Sen Monorom was only ever reverted from the list of 9 cities (correctly), not from the regionlist table. --[[User:Burmesedays|Burmesedays]] 10:49, 3 January 2010 (EST)
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::We do not have a policy on what types of items or how many items can be listed under the regionitems field of the regionlist template. (Trying to come up with a good one would be a pain...)  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 11:17, 3 January 2010 (EST)
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== Cambodia and the French ==
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An understanding of Cambodia should include a mention of the French colonial period.  It should at least mention that taxes were levied, and resources taken.  As to whether in line with our guideline on [[Wikitravel:Tone|tone]] that translates to "plundered" - well to the extent it is an exaggeration I believe it is with our guidelines.  --[[User:Inas|inas]] 03:25, 25 February 2010 (EST)
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:Quite correct. The French are sometimes very sensitive about their inglorious colonial past.--[[User:Burmesedays|Burmesedays]] 03:33, 25 February 2010 (EST)
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You peoples not knowing Cambodia history. It is very wrong to writes France so bad to country. They saved Cambodia from Thailand who wanted country. They build many beutiful buildings. They build roads. They left wonderful food. if French so bad then why many of Cambodia peoples and some Royals people go live there now. If you wants to write about bad foreigh peoples why not America -> they bombed this country with much bombs aftar 1970, they give support and muchs money to KR aftar Viet Nam help to liberate from KR. I want change word about French becaus what you write is wrong and I wants adds words on bombing. Thanksyou - Sopheap Phay
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I largely agree with Mr. Sopheap Phay and so when I have more time I will modify the content. (and before anyone accuses me of French biase, I am Hendrik, a S.African currently living in Siem Reap.)
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:OK, as noted above I have started an edit to better reflect the history, including: (i) to claim the French taxed the country suggests this was somehow unique .. all governments do! The Khmer people were taxed (heavily) before the French, they were taxed after the French and are still taxed, (ii) some of the taxes levied by the French administration were used for the good of the country, inc. building the infrastructure, laying out towns & cities, most especially Phnom Penh & undertaking restoration work on Angkor Wat & other significant cultural sites without which they would be in a very worst state today, and (iii) added about the US bombing that was instigated by Richard Nixon, this did untold damage to huge areas of the country. And, before I am accused of any biase I am South African, am not pro-French and I am not anti-American, I was just adding content to the article (I do confess though to finding the content had been a little anti-French and the omission of any mention of the devastating carpet bombing could be seen as whitewashing of what some have claimed was a US war crime.) When I have more time I will undertake some more edits of the housekeeping type. Hendrik.
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::By and large good edits I think.--[[User:Burmesedays|Burmesedays]] 09:58, 1 April 2010 (EDT)
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==Photo of e-visa logo==
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Can anyone think of any good reason why that should be in the article? I'm wracking my brain and can't come up with one. If no-one can come up with an important reason to keep the photo, it should be deleted. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 06:02, 7 May 2012 (EDT)
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::Agreed[[User:Travelpleb|Travelpleb]] 10:56, 7 May 2012 (EDT)
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:::Thanks for your second opinion. I have removed the photo. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 16:04, 7 May 2012 (EDT)

Revision as of 12:21, 26 May 2012

Contents

Archives

Oof! The editing of CIA data suggests that this article is ripe for defactbookization. Anyone up for it? --Evan 23:40, 4 Jan 2004 (EST)

Responsible Tourism

Comments would be appreciated on the efforts of the non-profit organization, Heritage Watch, encouraging travelers to visit businesses that have been certified Heritage Friendly would be appreciated. Heritage Friendly certification indicates that these businesses are supporting the arts, culture and heritage of Cambodia in various ways as well as contributing to development projects. It is our opinion that people should be encouraged to patronize these businesses while visiting Cambodia and the ability to recognize the logo is helpful. Thank you jpatokal for your comments by the way and suggesting a discussion here.

I would be OK with a mention under Buy, as currently in Phnom Penh#Buy, but not the listings themselves, since your "certification" expires yearly. Jpatokal 22:51, 27 January 2009 (EST)

Mines

I've edited the section on land mines to better reflect reality. As I've written, 99.9% of tourists will never be at any risk of stepping on a mine. It's important to be aware of the issue of mines that the country as a whole faces, but to present the threat to tourists as anything other than virtually nonexistant is irresponsible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.85.171.109 (talkcontribs)

I've undid your edit. It's more important to give all potential travelers advice, not just tourists. We hope our guides will be useful to the NGO volunteer who will spend 95% of his/her time in the places that tourists will never go and that may be in a very isolated place with the risk of mines. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 00:47, 26 March 2007 (EDT)
Even still, what I've written applies to non-tourists as well. Very few people make it out to areas such as those affected by land mines, NGO workers included. The only NGO workers who spend time in mine affected areas are demining crews, and they certainly have better knowledge than this site could ever hope to provide. We are not a conventional guidebook, we do not have to be politically correct. A better statement on my part would be that no foreigner has ever fallen victim to land mines of any kind. In practical terms, no one outside tourists uses these guides anyways.
I'm obviously not an expert on Cambodia, but the new text seems reasonable to me, although the "you will never see a land mine text" may be going a bit far. My understanding is that the danger to tourists from landmines in Cambodia is on par with the danger in the Falkland Islands, so providing similar warnings - basically "be aware that there is a potential danger and ask locals when venturing into less-traveled areas" - should be sufficient. -- Ryan (talk) 02:15, 26 March 2007 (EDT)
I've toned down the text a little. I'm also fairly sure there have been foreign casualties due to mines: the Khmer Rouge, for one, liked to ambush trains with mines and several foreigners were killed in an attack near Sihanoukville in the 1990s. Of course this is a little different from just stepping on an old one by accident... Jpatokal 02:33, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

I just returned for Cambodia 4/19/08. Although we never considered landmines in the cities, temples or beaches, there were frequent reminders that they are still a danger. From the bus between Phnom Pehn and Siem Reap, we saw several Land Mine warning signs not far from the road on Highway 6. We were told they are still fairly common in the Northeast provinces, especially "off the path" near bridges and the borders. You won't stuble across one as you tour Angkor Wat, but it would be smart to at least advise travelers to consult local guides before wandering off on their own when away from the cities.- shadomoon

Prices

Kampong Cham lists all prices in US dollars. Is use of the dollar in Cambodia so widespread, and so more prevalent than use of the local currency, that we should make an exception to the prices guidelines on accommodation listings and friends? I think this is a case where the traveller comes first and we shouldn't list prices out in the local currency if travellers will never see those prices; however, I'd like to know if that's the case. --Evan 10:31, 6 Dec 2005 (EST)

Costs for Cambodia should be listed in USD. In practice, travellers only use riel as small change - prices are quoted in USD, payments made in USD, even the ATMs issue USD (and not riel).
Interesting. Do non-US travellers change money into US$ before going to Cambodia? --Evan 12:00, 6 Dec 2005 (EST)
Virtually always. You can spend Thai baht (& get a competitive rate) in the areas bordering Thailand, but otherwise you need to bring in USD (&/or TCs, but USD is easier to work with). Prior to 2005 no ATMs; currently just a handful in Phnom Penh (Siem Reap to follow suit round about now). Even amongst non-tourists, USD is the preferred currency for amounts over and above a couple of beers.
Our anonymous friend is correct. Jpatokal 21:32, 6 Dec 2005 (EST)
Please don't use "USD", which is a currency code, not a word. "US$" is the correct abbreviation for "US dollar". Jpatokal 01:37, 26 March 2007 (EDT)
Wasn't sure where this should go on the discussiong page, but the entry about using a cell phone SIM card does not match my experience in the past month. CellCard sells cards for around $2. It's pay-as-you-go. They take a copy of your passport and have you fill out a form, and that's it.

Respect

I added content to the respect section. The things I put I feel are highly relevant based on what I personally observed while in Cambodia. Many tourists go there with a hardcore bargaining mindset, while Khmers themselves are rather meek and mellow bargainers and not hard to get the best price of. Some tourists will spend endless hours haggling for the best possible price, then go to a western owned bar and buy $20 worth of drinks without so much as an "eep" of protest, which is downright disrespectful. Brian Hnatiak

Agreed, with one exception: taxi/motodup/tuktuk drivers. Especially in the larger cities, they try to rip off tourists. It has happened to me on several occasions after walking away from a driver they came after me, dropping the fare they asked by half or even 4 times. Hans Hoppe

I second Hans Hoppel's comment about drivers in Phnom Penh and Siem Reap. Especially around the backpacker or tourist areas, they will try to convince you (beyond bargaining) that it should be that expensive. Persistence and be willing to walk away often leads them to agree to a reasonable price, but not always. Also, be absolutely sure they've agreed to the price before you get on. If they just ignore you or kind of nod, they're going to try to get more out of you at the end of the trip. It's true about not bargaining down to bone in the markets, as well. Aiming for a middle ground where both of you are happy usually works out for the best.

Tipping

The tipping customs would be a welcome addition. It should probably be included on every national page, and every subnational page where the tipping customs differ within the country.

From out recent visit, we learned to tip 1000 riel for a normal restraunt, 1500 riel for a nicer one (we're not talking about the 5-star resorts, but the local communities). Do not leave the money on the table or in the receipt holder (they will think you just forgot it), but place it directly in the hand of the server. Even though many restraunts are fairly westernized, most seemed a bit confused about the concept of a gratuity. This seems like a small amount, and I'm sure even a $1 bill would be welcomed. Most meals are priced about $4, so a big meal and Cokes for two comes in under $15 total.

Are euros accepted?

Some shops in New York City have started accepting Euros in addition to dollars. Are Euros being accepted in Cambodia yet?

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0655798320080206 http://www.nypost.com/seven/05252008/news/regionalnews/euro_welcome_112484.htm

141.76.45.34 21:55, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

Moneychangers are happy to exchange them, but no, the general public will not. Jpatokal 04:55, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
It's definately an option, when you travel from Europe. I go to Cambodia avery year. The exchange rate is better than in Europe. So you can exchange Euro to Dollar. Every money changer will do it. -- DerFussi 05:19, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

EVisa Does ist work?

Mates,

does anyone used the eVisa Service in the last month? I travel to Cambodia in March and would like to avoid the visit at the Cambodian Embassy because the work to apply for a visa is rather heavy compared to an online option. jan 05:40, 7 January 2009 (EST)

You don't need to do either -- most visitors can apply for and receive their visas right at the border. Jpatokal 10:42, 7 January 2009 (EST)
You should use the e-visa. I'ts very easy and reliable. Especially if you want to enter Cambodia via land. The behaviour of the staff at the Cambodian checkpoint is unbelievable meanwhile. Its a terrible rip-off. Especially at the border point Trat/Koh Kong. They accept only Thai Baht (although it cost 20 Dollar). I got a report that all travellers of one bus had to reimmigrate to Thailand and go to an ATM to get Baht. And nobody can stop that cause Koh Kong is far away from Phnom Penh. I wrote a letter to the secretary of the ministry of tourism about the situations at the border checkpoints and the embassies cause he asked for a report but its still not possible to get this under control. I go to Cambodia every year and get feedback from many travellers. If you enter by plane you can get your visa on arrival at the airport of Siem Reap or Phnom Penh. This year I spent a week in Kuala Lumpur before going to Cambodia. You can apply for your visa in KL. It takes only one day and costs 80 Ringgit (around 20 Dollar). Its really easy and a good option. -- DerFussi 08:42, 19 February 2009 (EST)
It really depends how far your are from the Cambodian Embassy in your Country. The EVisa at 25$ means to spend 5 dollars more which might be easely spent by travelling from yr home to the Embassy. I think EVisa is worth. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 119.82.253.137 (talkcontribs)
The situation is the same as Jpatokal made out back in 2009: most nationalities can get the visa on arrival at the land border or airport. Therefore the extra $5 is an unnecessary expense.Travelpleb 08:17, 26 May 2012 (EDT)

Regions

This article currently shows six regions. I propose some changes:

  • Merging the Cardomom Mountains and Elephant Mountains into one region (this is an almost continuous mountain range).
  • Redefining the Central Plains as The Mekong Lowlands and Central Plains (better term that travellers will easily relate to).
  • Merging Rattanakiri and Chhlong Highlands into one region and for want of a better name, just calling it Eastern Cambodia. Otherwise, we will have two very small regions in the east. This also allows use of the Mekong as a highly practical and relevant dividing line between the central plains/lowlands and the east.

Then we would have four similarly sized regions with provinces assigned as follows:

Cardamom and Elephant Mountains

  • Provinces: Pursat (Pousat), Koh Kong, Battambang, Kampong Spoe, Kampot, Kep, Pailin, Sihanoukville.

Mekong Lowlands and Central Plains

  • Provinces: Phnom Penh, Takeo, Kandal, Kampong Cham, Kampong Chhnang, Kampong Thom, Kratie to the west of the Mekong, Prey Veng, Svay Rieng

Eastern Cambodia

  • Provinces: Mondolkiri, Rattanakiri, Kratie to the west of the Mekong, Stoeng Treng to the east of the Mekong

Dangrek Mountains

  • Provinces: Banteay Meanchey, Oddar Meanchey, Preah Vihear, Siem Reap, Stoeng Treng to the west of the Mekong.

I think this makes sense but comments please! --Burmesedays 03:12, 26 November 2009 (EST)

Comments from anyone who has been to Cambodia or has an informed interest in the country really would be appreciated as I have a good looking map pretty much done aside from the regional borders. --Burmesedays 05:15, 1 December 2009 (EST)
I won't claim to be an expert on Cambo, but calling any region spanning Siem Reap "Dangrek Mountains" seems a little odd to me, as the area is flat as a pancake, and this is the only part 99% of visitors to the region see. Would "(North)Western Cambodia" be too misleading? Jpatokal 04:07, 3 December 2009 (EST)
Point taken although a fair bit of Siem Reap province is mountainous and the Dangrek Mountains span the north of it. But as few visitors ever get further north than Angkor, I guess it could be confusing. North-Western Cambodia would be fine for me. Another option would be to split the Siem Reap province with the flat bit going into Mekong Lowlands and Central Plains. Have you been to Laos Jani? If so please have a gander at my regional proposal there. Cheers.--Burmesedays 08:20, 3 December 2009 (EST)
Done and map uploaded. Comments are still very welcome. I think it works quite nicely now though. --Burmesedays 23:10, 5 December 2009 (EST)

Regions - list of cities policy

I note that Sen Monorom was added to, reverted from and then again added to the cities listed against Eastern Cambodia in the Regions section. This occurred while I was contemplating where this city was best placed because it had previously been put into the city list and then reverted simply because there were more than 9 cities listed. So what is the policy for including cities in the regionlist that are not also mentioned in the Cities section? - 10:22, 3 January 2010 (EST)

I am not sure I understand that question. Do you mean which cities can be added to the regionlist table in the country article? If so, I would say that with a country like Cambodia where there are not, nor ever will be, too many, the answer is all of them. Looking at the edit history, Sen Monorom was only ever reverted from the list of 9 cities (correctly), not from the regionlist table. --Burmesedays 10:49, 3 January 2010 (EST)
We do not have a policy on what types of items or how many items can be listed under the regionitems field of the regionlist template. (Trying to come up with a good one would be a pain...) --Peter Talk 11:17, 3 January 2010 (EST)

Cambodia and the French

An understanding of Cambodia should include a mention of the French colonial period. It should at least mention that taxes were levied, and resources taken. As to whether in line with our guideline on tone that translates to "plundered" - well to the extent it is an exaggeration I believe it is with our guidelines. --inas 03:25, 25 February 2010 (EST)

Quite correct. The French are sometimes very sensitive about their inglorious colonial past.--Burmesedays 03:33, 25 February 2010 (EST)

You peoples not knowing Cambodia history. It is very wrong to writes France so bad to country. They saved Cambodia from Thailand who wanted country. They build many beutiful buildings. They build roads. They left wonderful food. if French so bad then why many of Cambodia peoples and some Royals people go live there now. If you wants to write about bad foreigh peoples why not America -> they bombed this country with much bombs aftar 1970, they give support and muchs money to KR aftar Viet Nam help to liberate from KR. I want change word about French becaus what you write is wrong and I wants adds words on bombing. Thanksyou - Sopheap Phay

I largely agree with Mr. Sopheap Phay and so when I have more time I will modify the content. (and before anyone accuses me of French biase, I am Hendrik, a S.African currently living in Siem Reap.)

OK, as noted above I have started an edit to better reflect the history, including: (i) to claim the French taxed the country suggests this was somehow unique .. all governments do! The Khmer people were taxed (heavily) before the French, they were taxed after the French and are still taxed, (ii) some of the taxes levied by the French administration were used for the good of the country, inc. building the infrastructure, laying out towns & cities, most especially Phnom Penh & undertaking restoration work on Angkor Wat & other significant cultural sites without which they would be in a very worst state today, and (iii) added about the US bombing that was instigated by Richard Nixon, this did untold damage to huge areas of the country. And, before I am accused of any biase I am South African, am not pro-French and I am not anti-American, I was just adding content to the article (I do confess though to finding the content had been a little anti-French and the omission of any mention of the devastating carpet bombing could be seen as whitewashing of what some have claimed was a US war crime.) When I have more time I will undertake some more edits of the housekeeping type. Hendrik.
By and large good edits I think.--Burmesedays 09:58, 1 April 2010 (EDT)

Can anyone think of any good reason why that should be in the article? I'm wracking my brain and can't come up with one. If no-one can come up with an important reason to keep the photo, it should be deleted. Ikan Kekek 06:02, 7 May 2012 (EDT)

AgreedTravelpleb 10:56, 7 May 2012 (EDT)
Thanks for your second opinion. I have removed the photo. Ikan Kekek 16:04, 7 May 2012 (EDT)

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