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Talk:Bay Area (California)

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Revision as of 04:43, 23 July 2004 by Chipuni (Talk | contribs) (Dropping the hideously long Mapquest URL.)

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Maj: do you really think Tiburon is a "major city" in the Bay Area? San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, Tiburon? It's listed under Marin County, by the way. -- Evan 15:47, 8 Nov 2003 (PST)

It's actually more of a tourist destination than a lot of Bay Area cities. It gets loads of tour buses and day trippers from SF, many of whom have never heard of Marin County. But if it bugs, nix it. Majnoona

Mendocino town

Mendocino is already listed on the North Coast (California). I think northern Sonoma County, Mendocino County, Humboldt County and the like are physically and culturally distinct from the Bay Area. If that's not right, we need to amend the regions list on California. --Evan 18:38, 14 Mar 2004 (EST)

OK, I agree. I found it on the orphans list and just wanted to stick it somewhere... I was thinking the "get out" part of SF... I'll nix it from Bay Area... Majnoona 19:06, 14 Mar 2004 (EST)

Proposed addition: South Bay

I'm proposing adding a South Bay (Bay Area) region. Please Talk:Fremont for a discusion. -- Colin 00:42, 2 Apr 2004 (EST)


Instead of East Bay (Bay Area), why not Bay Area/East Bay?

Does Wikitravel:Article naming conventions answer this for you, or do you have something else in mind? For South Bay, there are more than one in California which is why it's disambiguated with Bay Area. I'm not sure East Bay needs to be disambiguated with anything more than California, but it's a nice symmetry. -- Colin 02:33, 8 Jul 2004 (EDT)
Seems like Bay Area/East Bay and Bay Area/South Bay are cleaner than the present. Plus they are like districts (see article naming conventions). Goodralph 02:44, 8 Jul 2004 (EDT)
Well, a couple things:
  • The East Bay is a sub-region, which has pretty clear guidelines in the current conventions.
  • For the most part, only the "East Bay" text should be shown to the user. The disambig part is normally hidden in links. For example: East Bay links to East Bay (Bay Area).
  • We want consistency though this guide, so we should follow the conventions.
  • If you want to discuss changing the current conventions, the place to take that up is probably Wikitravel talk:Article naming conventions so that we can be consistent throughout the guide.
So really, my only strong opinion here is that we should be consistent, and I'll leave others to decide what makes sense for the conventions to be. -- Colin 03:10, 8 Jul 2004 (EDT)
Goodralph: the East Bay isn't a district in a city; it's a sub-region of the Bay Area region. For articles in the geographical hierarchy, we use disambiguators for everything down to the city level, and sub-pages after that. The point is to make URLs and page names as short as possible while still maintaining uniqueness. It'd be miserable to write out [[North America/United States of America/California/Bay Area/East Bay]] each time you wanted a link to the East Bay. There's some info on this at Wikitravel:article naming conventions#Disambiguation. --Evan 10:09, 8 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Okay, I've done it now. South Bay is added. Technically, Silicon Valley should be removed since it duplicates cities already found in other regions. But can we keep it anyway? Traveller's might look for it and be troubled when they don't find it. -- Colin 03:56, 15 Jul 2004 (EDT)


Some stuff moved from User talk:Chipuni:

So how do we categorize Gilroy into the heirarchy? I see you wrote "near Monterey Bay" and included it into Monterey Bay, but it seems kinda fuzzy. We have a few cities I'm not sure what to do with: Gilroy (California), Morgan Hill, Hollister, and San Juan Bautista. The first two I tend to think of as Bay Area (California), but not the second two. Should we stuff em all into Monterey Bay? Should we create Southern Santa Clara Valley in the Bay Area (California) and stick Morgan Hill and Gilroy in? Stick just Morgan Hill into South Bay (Bay Area)? Or what? (Note: Gilroy's city home page describes them as being "a short drive from the Bay Area and Monterey Bay" so maybe it wants to be in a more general page?) -- Colin 01:42, 22 Jul 2004 (EDT)
Sorry to jump in, but would you mind moving this to Talk:Bay Area (California)? I think it would be of interest to others involved in the Bay Area stuff... it's a good question. I wrote part of the "Best of the Bay" article for the San Jose Metro a few years ago and I was assigned "Southern Santa Clara" which included Morgan Hill, San Martin, and Gilroy. Hollister is trickey too, I'd say it's part of the Coast, but it should probably be mentioned on the "Get out" section for whatever Morgan Hill/Gilroy ends up on... Majnoona 10:35, 22 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Okay, I've moved us here :-). Thanks for pointing out San Martin which I forgot. I could buy Hollister and San Juan Bautista as Central Coast, and everything from San Jose to Gilroy as SFBay. Anyone else have opinions? -- Colin 12:28, 22 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Don't know that part of CA well enough to have an opinion on individual cities, but if there is some ambiguity surely the best thing to do is to accept it and reflect it. In other words include a link to the ambiguous cities in both region's 'Cities' section (with a comment on the ambiguity), and in the header para of the city say something like:
AmbiguousCity is on the borders of Region1 and Region2.
There is no good reason I can see why wikitravel needs to have absolutely clear cut and precisely defined regional boundaries; we are to large extent describing peoples perceptions not trying to define congressional districts. Thats another good reason for not using sub-pages at this level, to add to the one Evan quotes above. -- Chris j wood 16:34, 22 Jul 2004 (EDT)
According to Mapquest, Gilroy is 32 miles from San Jose, and 40 miles from Monterey. In other words... about as equidistant as you can get. I have no problems with saying that Gilroy is on the borders of Silicon Valley and the Monterey area of California. (I put it in the Monterey area because, at the time, I thought that it was closer to Monterey than it was. I should have checked.) Chip 00:36, 23 Jul 2004 (EDT)