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Användardiskussion:Texugo

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Hi Texugo, and welcome to Wikitravel in Swedish. I see that you have an impressive merit list regarding adminship on various language versions, but I am afraid that I do not quite understand your edits here on the swedish version. Why do you keep removing the "External link" section in our guides? Furthermore, you do it, claiming that an external links section isn't according to the Wikitravel policy. If you study this page, it is apparent that external links in themselves are very useful and not in any way "forbidden". Should you come across any external link which isn't according to the aforementioned policy, feel free to remove it, but leave the external links section intact. I know that en: decided to remove the external links section. Well, here we haven't done so - yet, and that is because we haven't experienced any of the problems that en: seem to have had. If we encounter the same problems, we will of course attend to it. But for now - kindly leave them be. Riggwelter 21 maj 2007 kl. 09.55 (CEST)

Hi Riggwelter. I apologize for jumping right in like that, but let me explain why there is no need for an external links section: There is already a place for any links that do not violate the policy. Examples:
A link to an official tourism page of a city or country goes in the first line of the article just after the name of the place.
A link to the official train system homepage goes in the Get around section.
A link to an embassy or consulate goes in the Maintain contact section.
A link to Wikipedia, DMZ or World66 goes in the sidebar.
Links to official sites of museums or attractions should go next to the respective listing in the See or Do sections.
etc.
So what kind of links do you expect to have in the External links section? Basically, this leaves only links to map sites, other travel guides, and booking services, all of which are expressly banned by the policy. For example, one of the links you restored in the Bangkok article (Thailandsfakta) is an unofficial guide and should be deleted, and the other official link should go at the head of the article. Having this External links section is only an invitation for people to separate official links from their listings in the article, and to put all kinds of links which fall outside of the policy. I realize that this section hasn't been widely abused yet on the Swedish version, but as it grows we will only see more and more of this, and later when everyone realizes the need to remove it, there will be a lot more work to do. The Portuguese, Spanish, and Romanian versions have all recently spent a lot of time removing this section after it became a problem, and the Italian and French versions are in the process of removing it-- hundreds of articles to edit is a lot of work. It is highly unlikely that the Swedish version will be any different, so I strongly encourage you to rethink your position on this. We have a chance to save ourselves a lot of work later if we adopt this policy now and change the article models. Texugo 21 maj 2007 kl. 16.49 (CEST)
Hi! Now, let's see if my answer remains on your page... plus, I have had some time to think about the issue. First of all - I am a bit miffed that there has been an ongoing discussion on en: about the links policy. I think that is a bad place to discuss things. En: is not any standard template for other language versions, so all discussions which affect other language versions should be kept on Shared. Now, this is of course not something you can be blamed for, but I am sure you can imagine my/our frustration! So to the issue: We only use the external links section for the official country/town website and possibly the official tourist web site. I agree, however, that all unofficial links should be removed and we also try to do it. Now, I know that keeping the external links section is not entirely in accordance with the policy, but we still have to translate several policies into swedish. Before that is done, it is hard to require contributors to know anything about how it should be done... So, we have to do it step by step. Secondly - if there is a change like the one you mention above, i e to remove it on all language versions, it is something I'd rather let a bot do and not do it manually. It is simply too much work already. If it must be done manually, I prefer it to be done in some sort of structure like in alphabetical order, not in "any article where I find it to be". Riggwelter 18 juni 2007 kl. 13.57 (CEST)
Thanks for your answer. Actually I think most of the discussion on en: happened in late 2004 and early 2005, before most things got moved to Shared. They spent most of 2005 removing the external links section here and there, whenever they found it. However, there aren't all that many articles here on sv: yet, so I don't think it would be a huge problem if we decided to remove it. I could probably take care of it in 2 or 3 weeks. If you let a bot do it, the bot throws out even the official links, so I think it is better done manually, moving the official town/country link to the head of the article and the official tourist one to the Contact section. As for not having the policy translated, well... I figure that if users don't know the policy then it's actually better to take change the models now than to keep an external link section that seems to invite them to post non-official links. That kind of thing requires some patrolling one way or the other, but at least you could cut it out of the model and stop the problem before it becomes even more work to remove. Texugo 19 juni 2007 kl. 01.58 (CEST)
Alright - I see your point. All our templates have now been cleared of the "external links" part. This means that all new articles will lack the external links section. The policy is being translated and will be added in a not too distant future. So, feel free to change the external links where you find them. Please note that we do not have a "Contact" section in our templates. Local tourist agencies (all swedish tourist agencies listed on Wikitravel are run by the local town council and are thus official) are listed under the header "Problemlösare" (="problem solver"). Riggwelter 23 juni 2007 kl. 18.49 (CEST)
And to help you a bit further:
A link to an official tourism page of a city or country goes in the first line of the article just after the name of the place. Remains to be done.
A link to the official train system homepage goes in the Get around section. Already included in most articles as part of the attraction name, rather then a digit in brackets. This is a violation of the external links guideline, so it needs to be fixed.
A link to an embassy or consulate goes in the Maintain contact section. To be added to the section "Problemlösare".
A link to Wikipedia, DMZ or World66 goes in the sidebar. Already there in the articles where those links are added
Links to official sites of museums or attractions should go next to the respective listing in the See or Do sections. Already included in most articles as part of the attraction name, rather then a digit in brackets. This is a violation of the external links guideline, so it needs to be fixed.
etc. Riggwelter 23 juni 2007 kl. 18.55 (CEST)

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