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Wikitravel talk:How to de-factbook a country page

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Factbook Integration
[+] What I cut
- Factoids
De-Factbooking

There is one problem. A lot of the new people have begun actually editing the Factbook imports. Sorting out original text and improvement from the heap of really not very relevant clutter is going to be a massive task. Hence, I will begin to replace countries with an empty stub / template, and (if I remember) a wikipedia link. That way, when someone wants to add something, they will (...hopefully...) get the idea to fill in the correct spots. Oh, I'll also keep the factbook maps. This is going to take a while. I'd suggest only leaving the factbook for really tiny places like the myriad of uninhabited islands. -- Nils 08:21, 13 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Have a look at Wikitravel:CIA World Factbook 2002 import/Reference index, I have listed all the factbook import pages I could find. Last night I went and built a list of all the factbook country pages, that hadn't been converted, those that had and those that were dubious i.e country listing but no factbook link ot talk page. I will post that list there too if you want -- Huttite 09:32, 13 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Nils: Please don't do that. Read over Wikitravel:CIA World Factbook 2002 import for why we've left the factbook imports there so far. --Evan 10:47, 13 Apr 2004 (EDT)

That page really only lists reasons why we should dump the factbook. But, it's good to see that the Factbook is completely public domain. This means we can pretty much use the history intro bit as the basis for an understand section. I agree that totally empty templates aren't great either. By the way: It would be good to have a quick way of linking to the original factbook. Sort of like how we link to WikiPedia. I suppose this isn't easily implemented? I mean, afterall, the fact book might be interesting to some. (indentation seems somehow broken.) -- Nils 11:05, 13 Apr 2004 (EDT)

When I have edited a Factbook entry, I have taken the History to Understand, Boarders to the into, Administrative divisions to Regions, Communications to Contact, Geography stuff to Understand, under climate etc. and a whole lot of other things that seem useful, like exchange rate to Buy, etc. Mostly cut the military and government stuff, though legal system and border disputes may be worth noting. Lots of things to be done - lots of facts - to fill up the template. -- Huttite 11:19, 13 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Okay, I'll be very nice and careful about the Factbooks. I think a good compromise solution is to add a template, move any contributions (+map, plus msg stub, + wikipedia link, + maybe a rewritten history) but leave the factbook intact underneath. It isn't all that beautiful, but it shows the intent, makes it easy for people to contribute small bits in the right location, and should hence make it easier for the "editors". -- Nils 07:35, 15 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Please, just follow the procedure on Wikitravel:how to de-factbook a country page. --Evan 10:08, 15 Apr 2004 (EDT)

[edit] Factbook Integration

Most Factbook articles require radical surgery (a Factbookectomy is often suggested), to avoid people contributing irrelavant facts that are going to be deleted anyway. However, some factoids are worth retaining, though they need to be rewritten. The Factbook intro paragraph that describes the country could go into the Understand section as a first cut at explaining the country's history. Climate and Terrain can also go here. Entries like Location, Borders, Elevation Extremes can be incorportated into an introductory paragraph that lists the continents and surrounding countries. Capital, Administrative Divisions, Ports and Harbors are all good starting points for things like Regions and Cities. The Map should be retained and moved to the cities or region section to foat on the right of the page. Language can go under talk, though most of the other People and Geography statistics are also duplicated in the quickbar. Sections like Military and Government can mostly be cut out unless it contains anything really interesting, perhaps a mention about the Police and Legal system under Stay Safe if it is unusual. Is there anything else that should be retained from a Factbookectomy? -- Huttite 05:29, 27 Apr 2004 (EDT)

[edit] What I cut

What I'm cutting: I throw away anything that is not primarily travel related. What stays in: Transportation for obvious reasons; geography/climate because it should go into Understand; Disputes etc because it may present dangers to travellers (I don't evaluate it); Communications for obvious reasons.

Military and Government are sure goners, because nobody really cares and this ain't an encyclopedia.

About holidays:

A holiday of course may be marked by special events and so on. Then someone who knows the country should add those events back. But just list a holiday because it's a holiday? Nah, then we have to list christmas and so on as well. (Now if someone wants to start maintaining complete lists of holidays, that'd be okay in my eyes - but we should then consider adding an official section or sub-section to country and regional templates for this.)

Economy and People as well, the only bits of relevance are what we add to the quick facts section (population, languages, that sort of thing). Nobody will care for a travelguide to list that, say, the female to male ratio is 1.03 or whatever.

-- Nils 02:33, 22 May 2004 (EDT)

[edit] Factoids

What should happen to these factoids? Your comments are valued - "?" means I do not know. -- Huttite 21:21, 21 May 2004 (EDT)

Introductory Paragraph: Move to a History section in Understand.

Geography section

Map: Move the HTML to the bottom of the region section. Preview the page and relocate if needed. This normally puts the map beside the cities.
Location: Merge into an introductory paragraph about continent and bordering countries.
Geographic coordinates: ?
Map references: Contains the continent name to appear in introductory paragraph.
Area: In quick bar - can delete?
Area - comparative: Incorporate into terrain or delete?
Land boundaries: Incorporate country names into an introductory paragraph about continent and bordering countries.
Coastline: States if landlocked.
Maritime claims : States if landlocked.
Climate: Use in Climate section in Understand.
Terrain: Use in Terrain section in Understand.
Elevation extremes: lowest point: Delete if 0m
highest point: Show in Terrain section.
Natural resources: ?
Land use: ?
Irrigated land: ?
Natural hazards: Mention in Climate and/or Terrain sections.
Environment - current issues: ?
Environment - international agreements: ?
Geography - note: Incorporate into introductory paragraph Climate or Terrain sections if relevant.

People

Population: In quickbar - Delete?
Age structure: Delete?
Population growth rate: Delete?
Birth rate: Delete?
Death rate: Delete?
Net migration rate: Delete?
Sex ratio: Delete?
Infant mortality rate: Delete?
Life expectancy at birth: Delete?
Total fertility rate: Delete?
HIV/AIDS - adult prevalence rate: Delete?
HIV/AIDS - people living with HIV/AIDS: Delete?
HIV/AIDS - deaths: Delete?
Nationality?: Use in article?
Ethnic groups: In quick bar?
Religions: In quick bar?
Languages: Move to Talk section.
Literacy: Delete?

Government

Country name: Show conventional short form as the country name at the top of the article unless there are good reasons to use an alternative form - e.g clarity. Mention alternatives if relevant.
Government type: In quick bar?
Capital: Show as first city in Cities section
Administrative divisions: Move to regions - may need editing if a lengthy list.
Independence: May rate a mention in Understand or History section.
National holiday: May rate a mention in Understand or History section.
Constitution: May rate a mention in Understand or History section.
Legal system: May rate a mention in Stay safe section.
Suffrage: ?
Executive branch: May rate a mention in Understand or History section.
Legislative branch: May rate a mention in Understand or History section.
Judicial branch: May rate a mention in Stay safe section.
Political parties and leaders: Delete?
Political pressure groups and leaders: Delete?
International organization participation: Delete?
Diplomatic representation in the US: chief of mission: Delete?
Embassy details: List?
Diplomatic representation from the US : chief of mission: Delete? embassy details: List?
Flag description: May rate a mention in Understand or History section, especially if flag has some deeper meaning.

Economy

Economy - overview: Move to Buy section?
GDP: ?
GDP - real growth rate: ?
GDP - per capita: ?
GDP - composition by sector: ?
Population below poverty line: Delete if NA?
Household income or consumption by percentage share: Delete if NA?
Inflation rate (consumer prices): ?
Labor force: ?
Labor force - by occupation: ?
Unemployment rate: ?
Budget: ?
Industries: Check for tourism?
Industrial production growth rate: ?
Electricity - production: ?
Electricity - production by source: Delete 0% sources?
Electricity - consumption: ?
Electricity - exports: Delete if 0 or NA?
Electricity - imports: Delete if 0 or NA?
Agriculture - products: ?
Exports: ?
Exports - commodities: ?
Exports - partners: ?
Imports: ?
Imports - commodities: ?
Imports - partners: ?
Debt - external: ?
Economic aid - recipient: ?
Currency: Mention in Buy section.
Currency code: Mention in Buy section?
Exchange rates: Mention in Buy section.
Fiscal year: ?

Communications: Summarise in Contact section?

Telephones - main lines in use: ?
Telephones - mobile cellular: ?
Telephone system: ?
Radio broadcast stations: ?
Radios: ?
Television broadcast stations: ?
Televisions: ?
Internet country code: ?
Internet Service Providers (ISPs): ?
Internet users: ?

Transportation

Railways: May indicate if the Get in - By train section should be listed.
Highways: May indicate if the Get in - By car and By bus sections should be listed.
Waterways: May indicate if the Get in - By boat section should be listed.
Pipelines: Delete?
Ports and harbors: List in Cities section.
Airports: ?
Airports - with paved runways: ?
Airports - with unpaved runways: ?

Military

Military branches: Mention Police and similar security forces in Stay safe section.
Military manpower - military age: Delete?
Military manpower - availability: Delete?
Military manpower - fit for military service: Delete?
Military manpower - reaching military age annually: Delete?
Military expenditures - dollar figure: Delete?
Military expenditures - percent of GDP: Delete?

Transnational Issues

Disputes - international: May rate a mention in Understand section.
Illicit drugs: May rate a mention in Understand section.

[edit] De-Factbooking

(Evan writes on Huttite's talk page .)

So, I have to admit that I haven't been following that closely on the de-factbooking process. I was pretty surprised to see so many pages with a mix of factbook and non-factbook info on them.

I guess I expected the pages to be a lot more bare. But, instead, there's lots of factbook definition-style stuff in there.

Can we talk about this ....? --Evan 20:52, 17 Jun 2004 (EDT)

In the Factoids section (above) I have a list of what I think should stay and go from the factbooks. The question marks are all the factoids I have left unedited in factbook pages. Basically I am crying out for input from others about what to integrate and what to delete. However, I am reluctant to simply purge the factbook stuff at this stage because it does make the page easier to edit as I can see what stuff from the factbook could still be integrated. In many respects the edited factbook pages are still a work in progress that is being edited in stages.

I am creating an original factbook import page for each country.
I show the status of each country together with its factbook page on the reference index page (about 60% done - as of 19 June 2004)
I have integrated the obvious factoids into the country template and left the uncertain stuff at the bottom of each country page for others to think about.
I am listing partly complete countries on the pages needing attention.
I have culled some obvious non-travel factoids.
Once all the countries have a template, I intend to go back and tidy up all the untidy country pages by integrating and/or purging them of factbook factoids - which at the rate of one country per day is probably 3-4 months away from starting and a year away from being completed.

I believe it is this last stage that that Evan is wanting to attain straight away. However, my thinking is that by leaving some factoids in at the bottom it will give others something to think about and perhaps prompt them to edit the page too. If the factoids remain untouched in the meantime, does it cause anyone serious problems? Alternatively, suggest what should stay and go and I will incorporate it into the factoid list and integrate or purge as appropriate, as pages are updated. -- Huttite 00:10, 19 Jun 2004 (EDT)

I think this is a good approach, but I wonder if it wouldn't be a better idea to go at this depth-first instead of breadth-first. That is, get each page to the last step before moving on to the next page. I'll try and do a couple and see how that works. --Evan 15:32, 19 Jun 2004 (EDT)

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