From Wikitravel

The following pages were proposed on Wikitravel:Destination of the Month candidates, but the consensus was generally against them. Beneath each proposed article are the objections that need to be addressed. Once this has been done, feel free to nominate them again.

[edit] 2009

[edit] Preah Vihear

Off the beaten path but certainly in the news; just named a UNESCO World Heritage site and Thailand and Cambodia are still squabbling over it. Now has a gorgeous new map from Wikimedia Commons. Good more or less any time of the year, perhaps best in the winter though. Jpatokal 05:49, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Undecided. If "Thailand and Cambodia are still squabbling over it," is it really a good idea to recommend travel to it? How serious is the "squabbling"? Please advise. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 08:54, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Not particularly serious. Thailand occasionally closes off access for a day or two, but it's fully accessible from the Cambodian side (if rather harder to get to). Jpatokal 04:08, 12 July 2008 (EDT)

You're positive? This article kinda caught my attention... -- Bill-on-the-Hill 12:00, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

Should we create an "adventurous dotm" section for the main page? – cacahuate ^talk 23:36, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

I thought we called that "OtBP". Jpatokal 08:56, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

"Off," not "On," and "Beaten," not "Bombarded," "Besieged," "Battlefield..." -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:57, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

• OK, if the squabbling has died down, I'll support, but let's keep an eye on it. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 22:29, 2 November 2008 (EST)
  • I've popped this off the list for time being, but mostly because Phnom Penh is about to be featured. Let's see again in late 2009. Jpatokal 07:26, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Best to Wait right now. According to the BBC [1], Thai troops have just taken over the whole temple compound. Not sure if that will mean a skirmish, but that doesn't sound like it will make visiting a safe thing to do. AHeneen 07:10, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

• • If the decision is to wait until Preah Vihear is safe, should it be slushed for the time being? According to this website dedicated to the site [2], the issue was supposed to be brought up at the recent UNESCO meeting, but since it failed to make the agenda, they may have to wait until the next meeting to discuss the issue. It seems like this issue is going to take a long time to resolve. If a resolution is what we are waiting for, maybe it should be slushed for now. ChubbyWimbus 19:01, 4 July 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Portland

This one looks like it has a lot of solid information. The only thing maybe is a map or two (I might be able to do it) and a few more images from my standpoint. Looks well written with lots of images. What do you think? If you think it needs improvement let me know where and I'll try and fix it when I can. the summer or fall months would be best, so maybe 2010? Or we bump October or November I suppose. edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 20:02, 19 May 2009 (EDT).

• User:Bill-on-the-Hill nominated this one a while back, and the primary objection then was a lack of decent photos, something which I think still needs to be addressed. That Downtown Portland photo looks a little drab, and the pic of the MAX train looks more like an artistic photo than a traveler photo to me. Once that's done I think we could still do with at least 3-5 more photos on the page. Otherwise it seems like a pretty good guide - I'd tidy it up a little, add a few more phone numbers, but it's looking good. PerryPlanet ^Talk 12:41, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

Thanks for the reply. I'd been working lots on this one as the city interests me lots. So I made two maps - I hope they are ok. I was just picking out some good photos from the commons really, but I could find some more. But I want to not upload too many as I'm going there this summer and I'd love to put some of my photos up. edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 23:10, 4 June 2009 (EDT).

• Don't Support I think the problems with this page go beyond simply needing pictures. The "See" section is not organized well at all. Most of it is a listing of neighborhoods that, as far as I could gather, have nothing to see. That's the majority of the listings. It reads like a districtification list rather than a travel page. Also, there is a "Districts" section that seems rather odd. If the page itself is not going to be split into districts, that little section doesn't seem useful. If this is to be featured, the "See" section really needs to be redone. Let people know what there is to see rather than listing neighborhoods. (It's also more helpful to separate listings according to location rather than categories like "museums", "art", etc.) ChubbyWimbus 20:55, 29 June 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Stockholm

Good example of a guide for a large city we haven't distritified, and hence no poor quality outline districts. Good content, a few of the listings are missing phone numbers, and some others opening hours, but overall I still think it's pretty much up to standard --Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 14:12, 19 January 2009 (EST)

Support A very good article in my opinion, but should it be districtified? AHeneen 19:12, 20 January 2009 (EST)

• Oppose. This is almost a textbook example of why a huge-city article should be districtified. Packaged in a single article, the information (which I agree is nice and comprehensive) is unwieldy and inaccessible, and doesn't take advantage of the superior means of organizing information that our district structure offers. Districtify it, then re-propose. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 20:37, 20 January 2009 (EST)
• Oppose. I think I go with Bill on this one. It's a great article on a great city, but needs to be broken up. WindHorse 22:37, 24 May 2009 (EDT)

OK, so maybe we should scrap this, as the main contributors to the guide have reached a consensus not to districify the city, per the talk page, and I have no intention of going against that. --Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 07:30, 25 May 2009 (EDT)

Agreed. It's got a lot of great information, but until it is split into districts, it's not very useful, and it seems that there is no move to make these changes. ChubbyWimbus 08:35, 25 May 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Reykjavík

Alright, so this time I have discovered an article which is at guide status. Hotels and most restaurants list addresses. The buy section is a bit slim and there is nothing in the work section (but does the work section really matter). Iceland has recently gone bankrupt and the people are clamoring for money that isn't worthless so it would be a destination where the dollar (or pound or euro or loonie) really goes far. Hot springs in an arctic land would make for an interesting late-winter or early spring article (Feb-Apr?), although the best time to visit would be in the summer. AHeneen 04:07, 25 November 2008 (EST)

• Support- looks fine , but then again I am not very proffessional and it would be outweighed to Stefan or Peter. Keep Smiling, edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 10:37, 25 November 2008 (EST).

• Dubious it's not DOTM yet, but it could get there with a little work, as it is pretty close (might do some myself, maybe we should make it COTM!?) - as far is I'm concerned, there is only one good time to feature this, and that would be during the super cool Iceland Airwaves festival in October, as the town itself is rather dull, Iceland's impressive nature non withstanding. --Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 20:42, 27 November 2008 (EST)

Sure dunt look boring to me. edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 11:25, 2 December 2008 (EST).

• Almost support. Generally good, but the 'Understand' section stinks, and there's almost no descriptive text in the 'Drink' listings. Gorilla Jones 20:16, 8 December 2008 (EST)

[edit] Canberra

It looks quite solid and shows a lot of information that is useful. It's listings are complete and looks like a neat lil destination. edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 14:11, 8 December 2008 (EST).

Almost support. 'Do' section needs to have some sense ironed into it and someone will need to choose a lead image. The concerns about touristic charms from Birmingham above may apply here as well. Gorilla Jones 20:02, 8 December 2008 (EST)

[edit] Lisbon

It's a great article, and an amazing destination for travelling.

• Not Yet It actually looks pretty good and could probably be considered a guide, except the Cope section appears to have been overlooked. It's there but empty! ChubbyWimbus 11:15, 22 March 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Moscow

It is a great article, and the main destination in Russia. —The preceding comment was added by 85.247.106.197 (talk • contribs) .

• Oppose. The article is not at guide status. But it's below our standards in a host of other ways as well. It lacks any maps, which is a major problem for a city that has such a confusing street layout in the center. It also needs districts, given that it is one of the world's largest metropolises, the largest in Europe, with more than 10 million residents, excluding the immense undocumented immigrant population (we've been working on a layout on the Russian version btw, which we'll be able to import to here at some point). Having less than 20 restaurants listed for a city of this size (and for a city with a great dining scene) is an embarrassment imo, which should not be broadcast on the front page. --Peter ^Talk 16:51, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
• Oppose as well. It is no more than a nice introduction to the city. Moscow is comparable to other large European cities (e.g., London or Berlin) in its diversity, so you can imagine how the Moscow article (actually, the main article and a bundle of district articles) should look like. Since I originate from Moscow, I will readily join a collaboration for improving the article. However, pushing it to the guide status will take pretty long time, and I will not dare do this alone. Atsirlin 18:18, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
• Oppose. What Peter said. Jpatokal 08:40, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Porto

The second biggest city of Portugal and a very famous tourist destination. The article is very complete.

• Don't support. Not at guide status. --Peter ^Talk 16:48, 10 May 2009 (EDT)
• Don't support. Plenty of information, but virtually no complete listings. Gorilla Jones 19:45, 10 May 2009 (EDT)

[edit] North_Pole

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this guide when I bumped into it, well written, has a map, it's not a remote tropical island (in fact it's not even land) but still indisputably off the beaten path --Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 15:15, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

It's OK...but its shortness makes me think the article needs more information. Yes, there isn't a lot to be said of the N.Pole, but I really think a little more can be added to this article. AHeneen 03:02, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Don't Support It's interesting, but I agree with the above comment that the content is rather sparse. It's also not at the proper status to be nominated. ChubbyWimbus 03:05, 20 April 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Ethiopia

A very complete article, and not a very known tourist destination.

Countries shouldn't be nominated before all linked articles from the main page are are guide level/status. --Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 10:53, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

I've looked at the Ethiopia pages before and I don't believe there is a single Ethiopian city that could be nominated, the regions have no information or almost none... I would love to see an Ethiopian destination featured, but if you want that to happen, I'd suggest first updating a city and then nominating it once it has enough information to reach guide status before nominating the entire nation. ChubbyWimbus 05:25, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

• Not even close. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 21:43, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Portugal

The article is very complete, and it's a famous turist destination.

It's only at Usable status, and some of the cities listed are broken links, and most of the other cities and region links don't contain much information. If a nation is to be featured, I think at least the major cities and regions should be at usable status. ChubbyWimbus 11:25, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

Indeed the large region that comes close at the moment is Northern Territory, but I'd like to see all destinations have guides before we feature that. --Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 11:56, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Ohrid

I found this in the archive from last year, however it seems greatly improven and very rich in information. It is interesting and very intriguing. Seems there is a Ohrid Summer Festival starting in June, so I would have this one in June as OTB.—The preceding comment was added by 69.230.160.94 (talk • contribs) .

Still don't support. Please don't fish things out of the slush pile unless you've made significant changes to the article since the last nomination, and have fixed any previous objections. Get around tells nothing really of how to get around, what it costs, etc... I don't get an idea of the size of the town, what it will cost to get from one side to the other, etc. Eat listings are all lacking descriptions, addresses, etc. Once this town gets an overhaul, a lot of expansion, a map, and is at least a guide quality article, it will be a great choice. Until then, please don't bring it back continually – cacahuate ^talk 22:10, 17 January 2009 (EST)

Don't Support It's still a long way for the article.jan 16:02, 24 January 2009 (EST)

[edit] Galapagos

Popular place but still off beat. Took a look through it and information is valid and pretty good to use as a destination. Due to it's popularity, it only seems fitting for it to be a Of the beaten path, in my opinion. I really don't see anything wrong with it. I am sorry if this is a stupid nom, it just looked good. edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 16:04, 19 December 2008 (EST).

[edit] Pyongyang

A destination that is truly off the beaten path, Pyongyang would make quite an interesting addition to the list. —The preceding comment was added by 59.190.38.7 (talk • contribs) .

If this does get featured, it should definitely be in April to coincide with the Arirang Festival, which is said to be an amazing spectacle. —The preceding comment was added by ChubbyWimbus (talk • contribs) .

• Don't support - I agree it's an intriguing destination, but the content is not really up there to say the least - which I know is hard - but still --Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 11:31, 17 February 2009 (EST)
• Don't support — I'll repeat Sertmann...it's certainly an interesting destination, but it needs a lot more content (guide status) before being featured. If it is, August would be better for the Mass Games. AHeneen 22:34, 17 February 2009 (EST)
• Don't support. Same observation as the last two, but if someone would make the effort to get the article up to Guide quality, I could be persuaded to change my mind. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 18:08, 24 February 2009 (EST)

[edit] Nako

Pretty place, and its status in the hard-to-get-to "Restricted Zone" brings a whole new meaning to "Off the Beaten Path." Don't be put off by the sparseness of the Eat and See/Do sections; can't talk about what's not there. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:48, 2 November 2008 (EST)

Seriously? No offense, but how is this a GUIDE article? It is so tiny and even if there isn't much to do I am sure you could have added a bit of OOPH to it. Sorry for ranting, it just seems out of place. I don't get it. Personally I wouldn't nominate it yet, you just need to add some wording additionally to what you've got! NO FOR NOW.Keep smiling, Edmontonenthusiast 11:51, 2 November 2008 (EST)

• Objections for a place located in a restricted zone, and hence probably hard to get to, the get in section needs some work. Also I'd like some more information about why i should go through the trouble of going there (see/do) just some prose would be fine. Otherwise i find it very interesting Sertmann 11:53, 2 November 2008 (EST)
  • Inner Line Permits are a hassle, but they're a formality -- they're not going to reject you unless the village has just been taken over by al-Qaeda. Jpatokal 10:46, 11 November 2008 (EST)

• Undecided. I wrote most of the article, and yes EE, it's about as "guide" quality as this article will ever get! While I love love loved this village, it has very little infrastructure, and can't support a lot of attention. I'm not sure if we've touched on that subject at Wikitravel before, but it's something LP is keenly aware of when choosing to feature destinations. As for the concerns with the article, the thing that would make it clearer is a map on the Kinnaur and Lahaul and Spiti pages, which would put things in perspective... There's only 1 road that loops through those two valleys, and if you take it all the way around from either direction you'll pass by Nako. The Nako article isn't really the place to describe that, the article assumes (rightly) that anyone reaching Nako will already have a very good sense of what they're doing. FYI, there's faaaar more info here than even LP devotes to it (or how to get to it). Lastly, I'd almost prefer to wait until Lahaul and Spiti or Kinnaur are up to speed, along with the major stops along the way, and feature them as little regions... that's the only way that anyone visits them anyhow, you don't go into this area to just see one specific place like Nako, you do the loop (or half of it, anyway) – cacahuate ^talk 20:33, 2 November 2008 (EST)

We've featured more "forbidding" (and "forbidden") places than this before, e.g. Panmunjeom, which also has durn little infrastructure for tourism. Part of the idea behind OtBP is identifying places that are really off the beaten path, not just to alert travelers to their existence but to make the point that Wikitravel can treat such places better than written guides can, exactly as you point out. I don't see the remoteness and restrictions of this place as a disqualifier. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 22:27, 2 November 2008 (EST)

Well, I've cleaned it up a little, and added more detail on getting in to the Lahaul and Spiti and Kinnaur articles. I also drew a map for Himachal Pradesh, so hopefully it's becoming a little more clear where the heck this is and how to get there. It is otbp for sure, and it is interesting, but I really feel like it should be the whole region that is featured as otbp when it's ready. I won't withhold support though, if we need to fill a slot. July thru September is probably the best time to feature – cacahuate ^talk 02:37, 3 November 2008 (EST)

I agree with Cacahuate. The Kinnaur region would probably be a better candidate for showcasing than this village (which I believe I trekked to some years ago), but will go with majority ruling, and neither support nor object. `WindHorse 11:08, 3 November 2008 (EST)

Actually, Panmunjeom is visited by tour buses daily, so while it's unusual, it's not that off the beaten path... but I agree that featuring a slightly larger region would be good. Jpatokal 10:46, 11 November 2008 (EST)

Should there be a "stay safe" section????? Anyways, I agree that a slightly larger region should be featured. This town is very small and the description is quite short...it just doesn't make me want to get up and start planning my trip there. The article may be as good as it possibly can be, but there just needs to be more substance for a featured OtBP article. AHeneen 22:36, 3 December 2008 (EST)

No need for stay safe section, very quiet and stable area. At the moment this is near perfect for what I think it should be, but I also have concerns about trying too hard to sell tiny destination with no infrastructure... and also, half of what's special about this place is its remoteness and the fact that it's a bit off the trail for most people, even among those that come to this region. So writing a fabulous salesman intro that makes you want to go there, to me anyway, is not at all what the article needs, and would then probably let down the tourist who decided to make the journey based on that sell. If that makes sense – cacahuate ^talk 23:38, 8 December 2008 (EST)

[edit] 2008

[edit] Walt Disney World Resort

This article is chock-full of detail and has a Guide status. It deserves to be Star, especially by this coming January, which is when "The American Idol Experience" will open.

• Discuss -- carefully. The article is terrific, no doubt about that, and it stands on its own merits. However, it is a radical departure from our usual DotM practice to feature a privately-owned resort with a single, commercial operator. I'm not sure that disqualifies Disney World -- it certainly does meet the criteria for "destination" -- but let's not rush into this one without thinking through the issues. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 13:18, 4 September 2008 (EDT)
• Support. The article is excellent, and I don't see a problem with featuring it — it's clearly a valid article, and so it's OK for DOTM in my book. Jpatokal 23:10, 4 September 2008 (EDT)
• Support. It's a great article, and I'm sure it'll be Star by the time it's featured as DotM. Walt Disney World is well-known enough, and the article is well-written enough, that I feel comfortable going against precedent. --Tally ^talk 23:10, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
• Support. Great article. I'll agree with Jani—as long as it meets our article criteria, it should be allowable as a DotM/OtBP, regardless of the inherent weirdness of having a resort as our featured article. I'd give scheduling priority to more traditional DotM nominations, but I suppose this could be scheduled any time of the year (probably any time other than crowded summer would be best). --Peter ^Talk 00:20, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

Er, let me append that by saying that huge airports, despite meeting our article criteria, should definitely not every be featured. --Peter ^Talk 00:27, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

I wouldn't got that far -- I'd be happy to feature one if the article ever becomes star/guideworthy. I just don't see that happening though, because few Wikitravellers are willing to put in the elbow grease for (say) documenting every restaurant in Heathrow... Jpatokal 03:42, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

• Don't Support for all the reasons listed by Bill-on-the-Hill (first comment). Personally having been there several times, and living 50mi(80km) from it, I can say this: it is expensive, very commercial, and lacking in any form of "culture". While it is indeed a great place to visit, it can be plagued by long lines on weekends, around Christmas/New Year, and all summer (April-September). My biggest concern is that there really isn't much culture involved except for Epcot and it's lake surrounded by representations of several nations (they also hire lots of diverse persons). The cost of such a trip should be considered too...the admission is high, food prices and snacks are expensive, shopping/stores on the premises are expensive, and anyone planning to stay at the resort should be prepared to pay a lot for a room. Also, if one considers the vicinity, Orlando and Kissimmee are somewhat lacking in culture (save a couple of VERY small enclaves of Indians and Vietnamese). While it is a great article and a great place to visit with children, I do not believe it is worthy of being a DotM for the preceding reasons. AHeneen 19:41, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

I'm not sure that anything you mentioned should disqualify it. It's a destination, one of the most popular travel destinations in the world, and it's one of the better articles we have on the wiki. Culture value doesn't disqualify an article from DotM status, and even if it did, there's a strong argument to be made that Disney World and its commercialism is a good representation of American culture, in all its excess. As for expense, that's not relevant; a lot of our featured destinations are rather expensive to visit. --Tally ^talk 14:35, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

Let me be clear that I was not "voting against" the article; I was simply saying that the issues need to be discussed, as is occurring. I still haven't decided whether I support this as a DotM or not, but the things I raised were intended as points to ponder rather than as show-stoppers. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 17:50, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

• Support Although i would not set my own feet there in a million years - it's a very nice article, and one of the worlds biggest tourist draws. Sertmann 08:33, 3 November 2008 (EST)
• Don't Support. If we're going to expand this article with districts and whatnot -- which is something I'd like to get started on over the next few months -- I strongly suggest we wait before showcasing it as DotM. LtPowers 18:51, 8 December 2008 (EST)

[edit] Balatonfüred

This article is full of beautiful pictures and excellent detail of one of Europe's most unheard of tourist resorts, for the Westerners at least. Balatonfüred, Lake Balaton, has a beautiful charm and is one of Hungary's oldest Spa Towns. Surrounded by stunning countryside and mountains, yet still posessing a waterpark and an amazing town bustling with life, this surely is the destination of alifetime.

The Article has Guide Status and contains maps and indeed travel information.

Both maps in this article have been recommended for deletion on shared. Please address this issue there. --Peter ^Talk 19:00, 4 September 2008 (EDT)

Both Maps have now been deleted, with a new legal one put in place.

[edit] Jakarta

Developing as one of major cities in Asia, Jakarta is one great destination. It has the best shopping destination as a lot of shopping centers were built in this city. Let's not forget about Ancol Dream Park, which consists of Dunia Fantasi (Fantasy world), Sea World, Ocean Park, beach, resort, hotel, and great restaurant. Personally, it's even better than Hong Kong Disneyland. Perfect weather comes in May through August.

• Don't support, yet. While I do readily agree that Jakarta the city is better than Hong Kong Disneyland — for example, Jakarta has far better street food, shopping malls and strippers — Jakarta the article is in pretty poor shape. There's actually a lot of content in there, but the districting is really half-assed and much of it has been mangled by non-native speakers. Jpatokal 03:57, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
• Not yet. While I wouldn't say it's half-assed, I mean, thats a little harsh in my books. It's hard work districting. Though, it needs more work and maybe just give it anotehr month and work on it;)! Keep smiling, Edmontonenthusiast 11:38, 3 November 2008 (EST).

[edit] Osaka

Looks like a solid article. edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 21:03, 27 November 2008 (EST).

• Needs work. The sleep section for starters, anything that employs the {{style}} template probably isn't quite there yet – cacahuate ^talk 02:02, 28 November 2008 (EST)

• Needs work. What cacahuate said. Plus the Drink section is pretty inadequate. More than half of the section is things I put in there without even knowing the city all that well. There are tons and tons of bars and clubs there. Surely there are places worthy of recommendation other than the handful i happen to know. Texugo 02:06, 28 November 2008 (EST)

• Needs work. That Sleep section, in particular, is a total mess. Jpatokal 03:35, 28 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Buffalo National River

A forever pristine environment, located well out of sight from Little Rock, Arkansas or Springfield, Missouri.

• Not yet. The seeds of a very good OtBP are there, but it's awfully wordy, has barely sufficient Eat/Drink information, and needs some MoS work. (However, I wouldn't bother replacing the maps, even though they're out of compliance with our standards; they "work" because of the unusual nature of this destination.) A campaign to get the article cleaned up in time for spring 2009 would be well received. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:43, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Ohrid

Great article, well balanced and especially July is the best time to visit since they have the Ohrid Summer Festival. (One of the best music events held under open skies in The Antique Theater overlooking the lake, is Aug 2nd).

" Archaeological finds indicate that Ohrid is one of the oldest human settlements in all of Europe. The lake itself is over three million years old. Ohrid town is first mentioned in Greek documents from 353 B.C.E., when it was known as Lychnidos - or, “the city of light.” ". Read it and experience it...

• Support. I was there last year and this destination is "must-feel" in a life time, and the article is true to it.Hoh 18:18, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

• Support. Yes looks like a good article and the place seems unique and interesting, why not.
• I Support it. Very interesting and objectively written article. Definitely support, go with it. But I noticed there are few good pictures in the article, do you think this is the best one to have on the main page? I am not sure, I could not put my finger on the best one.Celia 21:47, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

• Oppose. Looks like a lovely destination, but at first glance: the "get around" section is blank, "see" listings lack any directional or contact info, no "buy" listings, no address/directional info for "eat" listings, no "drink" listings, the Wikitravel:External links policy is violated numerous times, all listings should be listingified, "sleep" listings should have price listings, the photo gallery violates Wikitravel:Small city article template. Moreover, shoving this into the July slot without even waiting a week to see if anyone objects to this as the DotM was totally inappropriate, and against the rules set on this page. --Peter ^Talk 23:25, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

• • Support These are minor structural changes that you are welcomed to go and make Peter. The article is however full of substance, is objective and easy to navigate and it will be a pity not to be featured in July when most events there happen. As for people being able to comment, it has been on the wikitravel site for some time and people have modified it for a long time. There are "buys" listings and as I understand the listed places are well famous there, while street addresses not so much, so the name is more than enough. I think what one has to have in mind is that different places have different distribution of priorities and information and a good article should reflect that, as does this one.
    • No, those are not minor problems. This page is about showcasing good articles, not just nice places to go. Jpatokal 06:42, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

• Oppose. First of all, you're only allowed to vote support once. Secondly, the article is ineligible for the reasons that Peter listed. Those are not "minor structural changes" - they're requirements. There's a lot of good writing in the article, but a lot of articles on this site have a lot of good writing - the ones we feature are the ones where someone has done the hard, boring work that's really useful to the traveler, like finding addresses and opening hours and prices. Since you keep promoting objectivity as a virtue of the article, you may wish to review Wikitravel's Be fair and Tone. As I understand it, they're planning to include the month of July in 2009 as well, so you may be able to have it in shape by then. (Note that Mount Fuji has been in queue since April 2007.) Gorilla Jones 08:26, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

• Support I just explained at the Fuji section since it is just a matter of timing and both are good articles, lets have Ohrid in July and Mount Fuji in August. Ohrid Summer Festival in July looks great and the technical polishing I will try to do please join me. Miko 09:19, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
• Not yet. Interesting article, but it needs serious editing. (BTW, please sign your contributions to this discussion.) -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:44, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
  • Incidentally, once the concerns about readiness have been resolved, I see this more as OtBP than DotM. No town (as opposed to "park") that we have featured for DotM since the creation of OtBP has had a population as small as Ohrid's 42,000 (Wikipedia), and the "beaten path" in Macedonia lies elsewhere (e.g. Skopje). I could definitely see this article as OtBP for June 2009, once it's been cleaned up; that's exactly the right timing for the summer festival. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 13:46, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
    • On this point I do agree with the nominators -- Ohrid (the entire lake area, not just the town) is Macedonia's top draw and definitely the most destination-y place in a rather OtBP country. But this, too, should be sorted out better: is the article's focus the town of Ohrid or the region of Ohrid? Jpatokal 06:35, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

• Support. I have been in Ohrid few years ago and I know entire Skopje goes there in the summer, so it is definitely the "beaten path" in Macedonia. (Is Mount Fuji more populated than Ohrid?) What needs to be cleaned up to have it ready for July? Because as it stands now we have two mountain destinations, so to add diversity and accommodate that Ohrid is most interesting in July, I would also push for clean up changes in the Ohrid article and have it in July, and Mount Fuji in August. ElenaJ 16:17, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

• Not yet. It definitely has potential, but I also agree with everything Peter says above... once those things are fixed I'd support for OTBP in an appropriate season. Also, Elena/Hoh/Celia, etc, please stick to one user account, you aren't accomplishing anything by voting under multiple usernames – cacahuate ^talk 17:11, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

To clarify on Cacahuate's point, we don't use majority rule voting on Wikitravel, we work by consensus. Moreover, if you read that consensus article, you'll understand that simply voicing an opinion isn't relevant, you need to make arguments per policy or established practice. --Peter ^Talk 17:27, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

Word – cacahuate ^talk 18:51, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Bern

A stunning city that combines a truely Swiss stadt with a global and diverse capital city. Bern would be a flexible option because the city and the area has much to offer all year long. Article is complete in many categories however some headings with no comment should be deleted and maybe more photos could be added. But I definitely believe that Bern should be considered. --AZGSB9 18:06, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

• Do not support -- strongly. We shouldn't be using "Usable" city articles for DotM. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 17:57, 12 April 2008 (EDT)
• Oppose, for the moment. Contentwise, I'd call the article a guide, but it does need some cleanup. Jpatokal 02:02, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Zermatt

A small, car free village set below the jaw-dropping Matterhorn is what Zermatt is. One must take a train or a helicopter to get here in the first place, but is it ever worth it. The truth is, there are many tourists here, but the fact that is isolated, picturesque, and has a very complete article makes this a very viable option for OtBT.

• Not yet. This article has enormous potential (it's a great destination) but needs a great deal of de-touting and MoS work. "See" and "Do" both need a great deal of expansion, and details are needed on lodging -- without external links. I'd love to see it put into shape that we can consider it for OtBP, but it's a long way from that point. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 22:36, 30 November 2007 (EST)

[edit] Sydney

I think this city could make it as a DotM and is definitely a super touristy area. Maybe May 09 or something? Thoughts? Keep smiling, ee ^talk 19:51, 16 November 2008 (EST).

Perhaps it could be a cotm first. Although Sydney is quite complete, just one level down at Sydney/City, Sydney/The Rocks, and Sydney/Chinatown it is decidedly bare... Also if I had to pick a time to showcase it, it would be the southern spring. rather than winter, so maybe a September target.. --Inas 21:28, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Alright, you'd have time to work for that, that's for sure! Keep smiling, ee ^talk 23:35, 16 November 2008 (EST).

[edit] Ville D'Quebec

Looking over Quebec City, it looks like it would be a fantastic DotM. I would probably say for WInter time. Either 08-2009 winter or 2009-10 winter. What do you think ? Keep smiling, ee ^talk 12:32, 17 November 2008 (EST). February has the Carnaval so that'd be interesting. Keep smiling, edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 13:54, 17 November 2008 (EST).

• Don't support. It looks like a lovely place, and the guide is pretty decent, but some of the See and Do listings seem rather lacking. Besides, an article has to be at least "guide" status before it can be DotM. PerryPlanet ^Talk 13:08, 19 November 2008 (EST)

Oh boy I always for get to look for the status....errgh! Keep smiling, edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 13:51, 19 November 2008 (EST).

• Don't support, yet. I think it'll be a great DotM someday, but still needs some work. There must be some good restaurants outside of the Old Town and the Get out section could be better. A map would be nice too (at least of the Old Town)! Shaund 00:52, 20 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Denver

Would make a cool Summer destination, or maybe winter. Lush mountains, big population, liveable downtown, Aspen, etc. What do you think-Aug 09 or Nov 09? Keep smiling, edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 21:33, 18 November 2008 (EST).

• Do not support. This has a lot of work to do yet. As much of the city's attractiveness stems from its proximity to knockout outdoors stuff, that outdoors stuff should be described by high-quality articles before the city itself is featured. Many of the in-town listings are rather perfunctory as well. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:12, 19 November 2008 (EST)

Adding on to what Bill said, Denver is still at "usable". An article has to be at least "guide" to be DotM. PerryPlanet ^Talk 13:04, 19 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Tokyo

Don't know Tokyo very well but it looks like it'd be a good article. I presume this city would be best anytime or during summer. Keep smiling, edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 18:33, 20 November 2008 (EST).

Not sure about this one, while the main article is probably up to standard, some of districts are in a sorry state, and not something I would want to showcase. And one more thing of note, I can't think of any other city where district maps is more important than in Tokyo - As anyone who has ventured into this - the greatest of all urban jungles - will testify; for the most part you're simply not going to find a place unless you have it plotted on a map. --Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 19:28, 20 November 2008 (EST)

Hehehehe, well we'll see some more opinions ;). Keep smiling, edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 19:30, 20 November 2008 (EST).

Don't support. I agree with Shaund: the Tokyo districts are highly uneven in quality (and even their borders are suspect, see the long but abortive redistricting discussion on Talk:Tokyo), and the lack of maps is major issue. Jpatokal 00:01, 21 November 2008 (EST)

Stefan. Keep smiling, edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 00:19, 21 November 2008 (EST).

[edit] Yerevan

The other Caucasus nations have had a town featured (Sheki, Azerbaijan & Gori, Georgia). To me, the only negative thing about the article is that the "see" and "do" sections are just lists of places with short descriptions...could elaborate a bit more. It is also only a "useable" article...MoS? -- AHeneen 23:42, 22 November 2008 (EST)

• Don't support. That article has come a long way, but it lacks a single buy listing, and none of the listings have addresses. --Peter ^Talk 00:15, 23 November 2008 (EST)

Which is a pitty, cause it's a mighty fine article --Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 00:46, 23 November 2008 (EST)

• It is so so close but not ready for it not to mention it is usable. A lot of it is just plain listings. Keep Smiling, edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 01:07, 23 November 2008 (EST).

[edit] Antarctica

Has improved by leaps and bounds since being COTWed. The only accessible season is Nov-March. Jpatokal 13:13, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

• Not yet. I can't imagine an OtBP that doesn't have "See" and "Do" sections, particularly one where "seeing" is really the main reason for going there. That needs to be fixed. Incidentally, the lead time for preparing for Antarctic travel is so long that I could easily see the article featured as early as August or so, even though you'd normally never dream of going there then. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 19:20, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

I think we'll get Antarctica up to DotM status by the end of the CotM—I'll cast a vote then. I've particularly been meaning to get rid of other destination sections and roll them all into see. --Peter ^Talk 01:40, 6 October 2008 (EDT)

I second that...this should be a DotM, not an OtBP article! AHeneen 21:11, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

• In a few months if it gets edited a little bit further, then yes. It should be DotM though.Edmontonenthusiast 14:54, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
• This seems like the very definition of "off the beaten path". Why would it be DotM? LtPowers 13:30, 7 November 2008 (EST)

I'd call this a DotM too. We don't have a very clear consensus on what makes an article either dotm or otbp, but my sense is that the most important thing is the obscurity, rather than the inaccessibility of the destination. Our main goal with the otbps is to showcase our ability to cover destinations that ordinary travel guides never would due to their obscurity (and there are plenty guides to Antarctica). As a matter of fact, since the LP guide is 380 pages,[3] that makes me kind of loathe to support this article as it currently is—I think it needs more research. So: Don't support. Hopefully we can build this up and nominate it again in the future. --Peter ^Talk 14:06, 11 November 2008 (EST)

I don't entirely agree with the part about "obscurity" vice "inaccessibility." Quite a number of our OtBPs have been places that are reasonably well known, just far enough from the main arteries that it requires some effort to go there. OTOH, your point about the LP guide is utterly compelling; we are probably never going to get this article to a state where it really shows off Wikitravel, in contrast to the other OtBP possibilities. Accordingly, I'm changing my vote to do not support. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 17:04, 11 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Northern Armenia

Lovely in the Spring! Raffikojian 19:20, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

Pretty good so far, no doubt about that for sure! But it is useable (or Usable for you Americans :P) and needs to be Guide or Star. Also, some sections are empty (or contain little information) that should be fille,d most definately ;)! So, since you say it's so good in the spring, why don't you set a goal. Try and get all this done, or get other help by at the latest February, then nominate again for maybe April or May or something of the like:)! Don't you worry, you have time and you don't need to do much. I hope to see this on the front page in the next year :)! Keep smiling, Edmontonenthusiast 19:25, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

• Do not support. It's certainly emerging as a fine article, but not there yet, and we should also resolve whether the area being covered fits the size criterion at the top of this page -- articles on overly large regions are generally disparaged as DotMs and OtBPs. That one can be debated, but for now, I have some doubts. (And yes, I get the incongruity of this complaint right below the Antarctica nomination, but that one's kind of a special case.) -- Bill-on-the-Hill 22:33, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Banff

Major touristy area and could be done anytime of the year. Keep smiling, edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.t.a.l.k. 12:51, 17 November 2008 (EST).

• I'm kind of wondering if I can comment on whether I like it or not. Well, just to try-I support. Looks "luvvy juvvy." Keep smiling, edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 16:39, 19 November 2008 (EST).

• Don't support. It's a cool destination, but... the article is only usable, there aren't a whole lot of addresses or directions in the listings and I'm a bit worried there is only one listing in the See section (this is one of the most beautiful spots in the country, after all!). I'm also not sure if this is OtBP or DotM material. It's a small place, but according to Wikipedia, it's tied with Calgary for getting the most visits in the province, plus it's a popular spot on a lot of coach and backpacker tours. Perhaps it would be better to bundle it up with the National Park, Jasper, the Icefields Parkway, etc and do a Canadian Rockies or Alberta Rockies DotM when all the articles are ready? Shaund 01:22, 20 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] Rapid City

Looks pretty good, and though small is home to a lot of really neat tourist spots. Most notably crazy horse and mt rushmore. Keep smiling, edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 14:05, 17 November 2008 (EST).

• Do not support. Only at usable status, and for good reason—it's not nearly comprehensive enough to do justice to the city, and almost none of the listings have sufficient contact information. Also, the city itself isn't very interesting—the surrounding areas are the main draws. I'd rather see us put up Badlands National Park, but it too is not up to dotm/otbp standards yet. --Peter ^Talk 14:52, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Good point. Maybe a CotM. Thanks. Your a pal! Keep smiling, edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 14:54, 18 November 2008 (EST)!

[edit] 2007

[edit] Baku

In a part of the world that's been curiously neglected by our DotMs, and a well-constructed, if comparatively terse, article that has been featured as a CotW. Not clear when the best time would be; Wikipedia describes the climate of Baku as "hot and humid in the summer, cool and wet in the winter." That seems to leave spring and fall; might this be an option for November? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 10:02, 7 June 2007 (EDT)

I'd love to see this get featured, but maybe when a few of the other cities in Azerbaijan are more complete, especially the ones in the Get out section - currently Sheki is the only one in the list that is at a reasonable level. Secondly, is Baku not more of an OtBP destination rather than a DotM??? -- Tim (writeme!) 06:43, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

Fair point about other cities, but the largest city and national capital of a reasonable-sized, strategically-placed country, with a city population of 2,000,000 or so, doesn't really seem OtBP to me. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 12:25, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

Hmmm maybe, but I personally consider Azerbaijan off the beaten path as it is most definitely off the path trodden by your average traveller... -- Tim (writeme!) 12:37, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

Being OtBP is a relative question — the next one scheduled has a population of 6.2 million, but (aside from us obsessive travelers) nobody's ever heard of it! Jpatokal 13:15, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

Good article. I'd support it for OtBP given the region's obscurity as a travel destination, though I'd like to see some verbiage to accompany at least some of the MoS-licious data about what I can expect to find at the listed bars, cafes and restaurants. Gorilla Jones 13:44, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

• My philosophy about determining whether or not a place is an OtBP destination includes the question – how easy is it to get into the place? Lufthansa has three flights a week from FRA, British Airways appears to have daily flights from London, however, a round trip flight seems to cost $1,400+. Plus, visitors need a visa to enter Azerbaijan. It's possible for travelers to get a visa at the Baku airport, however, you'll need to get a visa before your arrival if you intend to cross the border in another way. The mere logistics of planning a trip to Azerbaijan (let alone Baku) is daunting enough to say it's not a DoTM candidate. Even if someone suggested this as a OtBP candidate I could not support its candidacy because it doesn't meet MoS (even generally). Specifically, the problems are not all listings have addresses, or at the very least directions. Plus, there are some listings with absolutely no descriptions, which doesn't help me and I absolutely need information that will help my stay. Until then, I do not support. -- Sapphire • (Talk) • 13:52, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

Would support for OtBP after some clean up. There is still too much use of second person language and a lack of addresses - almost there...WindHorse 12:10, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

Could ya'll let us know what needs to be changed to make the Baku and other Azerbaijan pages ready for OtBP nominations? I want to make it as good of a page as possible. Thanks! Cupcakecommander 08:39, 18 June 2007 (EDT)

Sure, for a city of two million I'm flabbergasted that there are so few activities and sites for visitors to visit. Even Cincinnati, a city of 300,000+ has more activities and sites for travelers to visit than what's currently listed in the Baku guide. I'd be stunned if there wasn't far more to tell our readers about. I'm also having a big problem with the "Get in" info. Under the "Ferry section" it lists Russia and Iran, but doesn't elaborate on how to get from Iran/Russia to Baku. Also, there needs to be more descriptions of restaurants, hotels, activities, and sights. -- Sapphire • (Talk) • 17:05, 18 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Paarl

Good article for a continent we haven't featured much. Not sure of the best time to visit. -- DanielC 17:34, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

• I'd like to see the non-listing aspect of this article fleshed out a bit more first. - Todd VerBeek 17:52, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

• Good, but not good enough. Eat and Sleep listings need prices, Sleep should also be split into Bud/Mid/Spl. Drink section needs a little more info. Jpatokal 18:33, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

• Paarl is a major tourist destination and definitely not off the beaten path. A large number of tourist than visit Cape Town also visit Paarl and the surrounding vineyards. If featured it should be under Destination of the month rather than Off the beaten path. It is however a a bit of a horrible article consisting of little more than listings. As one of the oldest towns in South Africa, situated in a beautiful location it really should include some prose to describe the history and the area. As it stands now it definitely does not inspire anyone to visit. --NJR_ZA 01:34, 26 November 2007 (EST)

[edit] Belfast

Was nominated a while back, but put in the slush pile with a few objections. I have made the required changes to it and figured it could go back onto the list. We definately shouldn't put this as the dotm outside of the summer... it rains alot in Ireland. The article could do with a few more pictures, but it is more or less ready as it is. For previous objections, see why Belfast got slushed. Tim 11:34, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

• Support, with reservations; "Eat" and "Sleep" are still pretty thin for a major destination. The rest of the article is in good enough shape, and these two sections at least have some entries that would help a traveler, but improvements would still be appropriate. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 08:48, 15 August 2006 (EDT) I withdraw my support. There are a number of MoS issues, and some "tout" problems have started to appear. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:51, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Berlin

It's an interesting city and would be perfect for spring 2007. It may need some more content for the districts but more or less it's complete. Jan 05:20, 24 July 2006 (EDT)

• Support, but alot of the info needs to be filtered down to the districts, with links to it from Berlin. Tim 11:39, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

I started a little to bring it into the boroughs but I guess that maybe we creat some sites like Berlin nightlife because it is much more helpful than break too many things in the boroughs. Jc8136 05:30, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

• Support. Kingjeff 22:05, 14 September 2006 (EDT)
• Contentwise it's there, but this is going to need quite a lot of work to bring it back inline with the Manual of Style... Jpatokal 00:32, 1 February 2007 (EST)
• I think that it needs quite a lot of work to put the info into good district articles. I'll try look for an alternative -- DanielC 16:37, 2 February 2007 (EST)
• Oppose, as long as those editorial exhortations to move content to district articles are there. If the job isn't done by the middle of the month, then this needs to get removed from the queue. — Ravikiran 13:12, 5 February 2007 (EST)
• Do not support. Just too much work remains to be done, as has been true for quite a while. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:13, 6 February 2007 (EST)

[edit] Birmingham (England)

The UK's second city, shopping mecca and apparently more miles of canal than Venice! It's a comprehensive article and there are good maps. Could do with a bit of an MoS finetune and some more photos, but the core material is there. I would suggest that the summer months would be the best time to visit the city (this is due to the obvious issue with the good old English weather in every other season) -- Tim 06:12, 29 October 2006 (EST)

• Close, but not quite ready yet. More than a "bit" of MoS work needs to be done, lack of photographs is a shortcoming, and if the place "could not be described as a city full of tourist attractions," the "Get out" section should definitely be expanded. Resolve these issues and I'd vote for it; the hard parts (content, maps) are up to standards already, so getting it into shape shouldn't be hard. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 19:33, 24 November 2006 (EST)
  • Fair points. I shall nominate this for CotW and we'll see how that sorts things out. -- Tim 07:26, 26 November 2006 (EST)

Don't support - the 'Sleep' section is too thin for a city of this size, though will support if this can be corrected. WindHorse 01:31, 1 February 2007 (EST)

• Don't support. I agree that the "Sleep" section needs a lot of improvement. -- DanielC 16:10, 2 February 2007 (EST)

[edit] Jerusalem/Old City

One of the most important square kilometers on Earth! Comprehensive article. Central to Judaism and Christianity, whilst being important in Islam. Great all year round but could fit in well with Christmas time - December in particlar for obvious reasons.Flymeoutofhere 09:36, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

Not yet, it's got a little work. First, I'd like to see more photos (my personal preference is to get a some images of off-the-beaten-path sights), but another problem is that for many listings there's no address or directions. I'd be especially interested in contact info for a lot of the churches and such too. The article also should list a few internet cafes. Regarding December time slot, wouldn't Bethlehem make more sense? I think if this article is chosen to be a DotM to display it in month of Nisan (preferably when Passover, Good Friday, and Easter) would be ideal since travelers could then experience Jewish customs and Christian customs. -- Sapphire • (Talk) • 02:21, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

• Do not support. I really like the idea of getting Jerusalem into shape for DotM, but the whole city, not just a district, should be the DotM, and it's not there yet. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 10:03, 7 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Leeds

Largest city in the wonderful world famous English county of Yorkshire. Has won a host of tourism awards recently including UK Visitor City Of The Year, UK Favourite City, Best City for Clubbing, Most Female friendly city. A host of attractions from museums, countryside, shopping and nightlife. This article is fantasticaly in depth now too.

• Do not support -- yet. There's a lot of excellent content in this, but it has three serious problems. Several sections are quite out of conformity to the Wikitravel:Manual of style. A tendency toward touting has also crept into some of the text. Third, and hardest to remedy, the lists of attractions are so long and cobbled-together that they're hard to follow. Some way of reorganizing the content needs to be found, so that it doesn't read like a laundry list. All of these objections can be overcome, and I'd gladly change my vote if they were, as the amount of effort that has gone into this article is impressive. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 12:33, 29 December 2006 (EST)
• Do not support. There is probably too much information, the listings need addresses / phone numbers and the district articles are thin. -- DanielC 16:20, 2 February 2007 (EST)

[edit] Lucerne

It looks like someone tried to nominate this but had syntax problems. I've fixed them so that we can give the article due consideration, but I strenuously oppose using the article as DotM. It's not even close to the standards we require. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 22:51, 29 August 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Montreal

A very good guide. Best time is summer I presume. -- DanielC 16:39, 5 February 2007 (EST)

There's an ongoing debate on Talk:Montreal about districtifying the city, so it might be best to wait until that's sorted out. Jpatokal 00:02, 6 February 2007 (EST)

Agree with Jani. Montreal is a great city that should be DotM at some point, but the district issue really needs to get settled (and has been pending for a long time). In my opinion, districtifying is necessary -- there's altogether too much interesting stuff in Montreal to lump into a single article -- but who will bell the cat? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 15:30, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

The districtifying is now in progress, but this is still not ready. Any objections to slushing it again, until the districts are all in shape? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:02, 27 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Portland (Oregon)

Fantastic content on a perennially underestimated city, with "Get out" links to several of the innumerable great-outdoors destinations of the region. The only shortcoming is a shortage of imagery, but that can be remedied. Suggested for August 2007. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 22:11, 3 December 2006 (EST)

Support, on the condition that some decent images can be dug up. Jpatokal 22:22, 1 February 2007 (EST)

Support, although could do with a couple more photographs and telephone numbers for the "eat" items. -- DanielC 17:05, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

• On thinking about this one, I think it might be best to postpone it until the imagery is in better shape. Furthermore, Albuquerque is looking like an absolute gem for October, and three United States DotMs in a row would be a bit much. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 14:25, 17 April 2007 (EDT)
  • Bump. The image problem still hasn't been fixed. This isn't a bad article, and would be a viable DotM in harder times, but I think it may be better to put Zion into this slot (and Albuquerque in September), leaving this one open for inclusion next year -- if we can dig up some photos. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:50, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

Agree. The sole drab image does nothing to enhance the article, so like Bill says, maybe defer until a few good images can be found. That would place Zion in the August slot and Albuquerque in the September one....two US sites in a row. How about Zion for August, Hiroshima for September (they might get a typhoon or two, but they are passed in half a day) and Albuquerque for October? I'll rearrange in that way and then gauge the reaction WindHorse 10:21, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

Maybe Albuquerque should be moved into the October slot, since that's when the Balloon Fiesta is happening. But Zion for August? Too hot. Can we push that into September, when it's cooler? PerryPlanet 19:06, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Quebec

Québec is unique among tourist destinations. Its French heritage sets the province apart, and it is one of the only areas in North America to have preserved its Francophone culture. Its European feel and its history, culture and warmth have made Québec a favourite tourist destination both nationally and internationally. —The preceding comment was added by Bonjour Quebec (talk • contribs) .

Oppose

The article reeks of racist implication that is of no interest to a vistor. I think most of the article needs to be deleted and one needs to start over and address the interests of a visitor and scrap the information on racist differences, who cares except the residents and it appears they need to grow up. Mention the differences and go on. 2old 15:14, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

• Do not support -- to put it mildly. I will give the nominator the benefit of the doubt and assume good faith, in which case this is a complete, if well-intentioned, misinterpretation of what a DotM needs to be. This article isn't close. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 15:51, 3 August 2007 (EDT)
• Do not support - not at all according to our manual of style. Unfortunately User:Bonjour Quebec who is the nominator and did a lot of work on the article does not reply on his/her discussion page. --Flip666 ^writeme! • 16:16, 3 August 2007 (EDT)
• Do not support - the Quebec province articles are generally not in good shape, and my impression is that their quality dismayingly has been deteriorating, rather than improving. --Peter ^Talk 19:16, 3 August 2007 (EDT)
• Oppose - I would love to see Quebec a DotM, but the article isn't there yet. As a side note, I'm still trying to contact someone at Bonjour Quebec to a)verify the identity of the user using that name and b)discuss how we can collaborate according to our Wikitravel:Goals and non-goals. Maj 23:48, 3 August 2007 (EDT)
  • Would anyone object to slushing this one? The consensus seems overwhelmingly clear... -- Bill-on-the-Hill 23:02, 5 August 2007 (EDT)
• No objection here. It's not ready to be featured. Gorilla Jones 23:07, 5 August 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Sao Gabriel da Cachoeira

It will be very difficult to find anything more off-the-beaten-path than this place. And it surely makes an amazing trip. User:Guoyifan 05:21 20 February 2007 (EST)

• Do not support - It looks like a great destination, but there are problems with the images in the article: the photo of the natives is not consistent with our privacy policy, and the other two do not appear to be properly licensed for use on Wikitravel. - Todd VerBeek 09:41, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Warsaw

CotW which has been hugely improved. Very good article. Could do with a better map and more info in a few more districts. Not exactly sure when to put it, maybe summer 2007? Tim 15:45, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

• Districts are a bit thin, the airport is a nightmare for any traveller but might be good for late summer 2007. Jan 05:42, 15 August 2006 (EDT)
• Support with a caveat: this is one of those Pattaya-style articles where the content is great but the formatting is a little eccentric to say the least. I fixed up the biggest booboo (Get in stuff in Get out), but this could still use some more work. Jpatokal 22:30, 1 February 2007 (EST)

Luckily, this is one place that I can actually do something about. I hate the fact Pattaya reads like a yellow pages or a paper of random listings and useless services that shithole motels hand out to guests. I'm not going to let that happen this article so I do not support until we make a real attempt at it. I'll do my part. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 22:40, 1 February 2007 (EST)

Don't support - ditto Sapphire's comments. WindHorse 23:05, 1 February 2007 (EST)

• Oppose. If you start looking at it closely after the (far too much) travel info, it has far too many districts and then areas labelled as districts that then link to (unique to Warsaw) walking tours. The main district article - Warsaw/Srodmiescie is really just a long list. This is an idiosyncratic work that I don't think we should be promoting. -- DanielC 15:30, 5 February 2007 (EST)
• Do not support. Really needs MoS-based overhaul. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:14, 6 February 2007 (EST)
• I don't support this either anymore... It could almost do with going in for another CotW to sort out the MoS problems.--Tim 11:28, 6 February 2007 (EST)
• Support. I was working hard on this article last September to improve it (independently of this nomination, in fact I've found out about it only now) and I'd be delighted to do everything I can (provided I have the time) to make Warsaw a well-written, informative and helpful article. I see some people have objections to this nomination and it's great, because it means you have read the article and know its weak points. Could you please take a minute or two explaining what exactly needs to be improved, on the article talk page? The reason I'm asking for this is that I'm afraid I don't fully understand what the problem is ("Pattaya-style"?). CandleWithHare 15:58, 2 March 2007 (EST)

Also, please remember the style rules were different at the time most of the article was written and if something isn't explicitly stated in the rules it doesn't mean it's prohibited, so the question that should rather be asked is whether something is reader-friendly or not. CandleWithHare 15:58, 2 March 2007 (EST)

Generally, style policies have not changed much, though, there have been some small changes. My attempt to fix and remove a lot of the crap no one would really use was reverted by you, now you'll understand why it needed to be deleted, and I suspect that we'll just end up deleting the same stuff, if not more. The toilet information needs to be deleted. I moved it to the Poland guide, though an explanation of square v. circle could still be used there. No one needs to know all of the major hypermarkets on the Warsaw guide. If it's really important, then we'll put it in the districts, which is what policy requires.

Also, we don't need:

• Ice-skating
• Bowling
• Climbing
• Cycling
• Golfing
• Shopping malls
• Hypermarkets
• Consumer electronics (Wikitravel isn't a catalog!)
• Antiques
• Provisional-now-permanent

Pattaya is bad article because it's the type of thing that a shithole motel gives out to it's guests so they can go and get pizza from Pizza Hut, or whatever and Warsaw (and it's districts) are taking this route. If there is some potentially useful information it's need to be removed to the proper district. A major rewrite is needed too, but that can come last, in my opinion otherwise we'll probably end up where we began. -- Sapphire • (Talk) • 16:16, 2 March 2007 (EST)

Ooi! I think almost all of those are useful information, although you should pick a few noteworthy shops/facilities, not list the whole lot. Travellers do go bowling, climbing, cycling, golfing, and shopping, although more probably for antiques than consumer electronics. (At least in Warsaw; the reverse would be true in Hong Kong.) Jpatokal 23:56, 2 March 2007 (EST)

I believe it's spelled "Oi". Anyhow, you're right that most of it can be useful, but we need to give an very fine grained overview and shuttle off most of the info to the districts. The Russian Market, as an example does require a mention in the top-level guide, but the nitty gritty details belong in the districts. -- Sapphire • (Talk) • 00:04, 3 March 2007 (EST)

Candle, "Pattaya style" was a reference to how Pattaya had turned into a yellow pages directory, listing absolutely everything that there was possibly to see or do in the place, rather than being a focused and discerning travel guide pointing travelers to just the best and most relevant things. If you're interested, go back into the history on that article and look at it before Sapphire and I started deleting some stuff [or even now, it still needs help ;) ]. Anyway, I would also propose that we delete the 1900's picture and the Emblem of Warsaw pic, which are more appropriate for Wikipedia than here... photos in the articles, I think, should just be ones that aid the traveler by giving a good impression of what to expect when traveling there, anything else just clutters the article... btw, you did a great job on the Warsaw way back when, it's good that you're around again now to help us perfect the article and bring it even more in line with the Manual of Style and the current ideas of good Guide articles - Cacahuate 03:02, 7 March 2007 (EST)

Thanks for the explanation, I get it now. Indeed, I didn't take into account that the article may get too long in the process of improving it :) So, what are we getting rid of first? I agree about the toilet stuff -- personally, I've never understood the peculiarities of the alleged public-toilet problem in the city I live in, but as people keep adding such information, I always thought there was some need for it, with websites such as this one emerging around the world. I also agree about the old photo, which is useless, but it was around before I started meddling with the article, and I was generally unwilling to remove stuff. As for the emblem, I only added it because it occupies the place that would otherwise be empty anyway (at least that's how things show up in my browser). CandleWithHare 12:42, 7 March 2007 (EST)

[edit] Windsor (Ontario)

Fairly complete article. The only problem I really see is a lack of photos, but if I ever get my film developed I can solve that problem. Time format should be MoS'd (I have a hard time reminding myself to do civilian time). Also, I didn't include a whole lot of info for the descriptions of listings, but I'll dfix that in a few days. I thinks some of the strong points are: the "Get in" info, the abundance of nightlife, and the diverse cultural aspects of the city (you have Middle Eastern/Lebanese, Asian, Italian, African neighborhoods all within several minutes of each other).

I'd suggest making this DoTM for summer '07 or early fall. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 03:36, 2 December 2006 (EST)

• I'd support this providing the issues Sapphire mentioned above are addressed. I'd also like to see an understand section, more info in get around and at least a few listings in budget sleep. If that gets done it'll be a nice article. -- Tim 04:47, 2 December 2006 (EST)
• A problem I see with this is that, while the Windsor article has lots of good stuff, Windsor as a destination is dominated by that city across the river -- and its article still needs serious work despite its "Guide" status. Some discussion of how to handle DotM candidates along national borders, with matching cities across the border, might be appropriate before proceeding with this one. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 22:30, 3 December 2006 (EST)

OTBP is an option too, but it's not exactly off the path. I suggested summer 07 because looking over I'm not as happy with the article as I thought I was and in a few weeks I should whip this in shape. -- Andrew (Sapphire)

• Support for OTBP, because iit's not one of the main destinations in Canada (and I've never heard of it!) - DanielC 16:13, 2 February 2007 (EST)

Aren't all destinations in Canada OTBP... by definition? :) But seriously, Detroit/Windsor is Canada's busiest border crossing, and one of the busiest in the world. Just about anyone driving into Canada from the U.S. Midwest goes through Windsor. To say nothing of its popularity among 19/20-year-olds and strip-club patrons throughout Southeast Michigan. -Todd VerBeek 16:14, 5 February 2007 (EST)

Since this one is in the gray area between DotM and OtBP, I suggest we consider it a "utility" destination to plug into whichever of the two is more in need of candidates. At the moment the DotM list is actually more sparse than OtBP, so how about we use it for the August DotM (Portland still being short on photos) and look for a different August OtBP? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 14:49, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

• Support - clean, simple article - summer best for feature? WindHorse 19:34, 2 February 2007 (EST)
• The current blurb does a really bad job of selling the destination (automobile industry? near Detroit?), and the article doesn't have anything better. Could somebody who knows the place better come up with something nice/interesting? Jpatokal 01:35, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

I took a stab at reorganizing the blurb based on available facts. However, it is still not very appealing. I reiterate Jpatokal's appeal for someone familiar with the city to add fresh and interesting info. WindHorse 02:11, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

• Potentially don't support – So maybe I'm chiming in a little late in the game here, but how did this make it so far in the first place? I appreciate that the article covers the destination so well, but it's still sounding like a thoroughly uninteresting place, and I'm not convinced that it's one of the 2 articles that should represent the site for an entire month. A park along the river with views of Detroit and drunk-ass 19-20 year old Americans with but-her-face strippers in their laps are the main highlights? No thanks. When I think of OTBP it conjures up images of quaint little cities or far off villages just waiting to be explored and uncovered – not busy border crossing towns. Sorry to throw that out there so last minute, but are there any alternatives? – cacahuate ^talk 02:32, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, it is not a great destination, but there is no substitute in the nomination list at present. I'll enter Jakar in Bhutan for consideration as a possible alternative as this a summer only destination. WindHorse 02:43, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

Sado Island has been nominated as an alternative destination to Windsor. See below. WindHorse 04:53, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Space

Just throwin' it out there... can't get more OTBP than that... and the article's pretty comprehensive, considering the limited options... and I'm in love with the new opening picture... OR... should this wait a couple/few years until there's a little larger # of people going up each year? – cacahuate ^talk 01:08, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

At first I thought this was a little ridiculous, but I'm rather pleasantly surprised by the article. I mean there's off-the-beaten-path, then there's absurd. Some of the options listed in the guide are surprisingly cheap and with a little savings someone like me – trying to get into college and working a job at a restaurant – could actually participate in. If I hadn't actually read the article I'd be ignorant about those options.

However, the thing that sold me is that the understand section is very, very eloquent, which we often lack in our guides. I think this would be the perfect DotM/OtBP candidate, especially as it highlight and exemplifies some of our goals and philosophies, which can never be expressed by our other guides. Support -- Sapphire • (Talk) • 05:08, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

Support. Nowhere is cooler than the space! Guoyifan 12 April (EDT)

• Actually Space can be very hot as well. :) Support. No hurry to feature it; it's not going anywhere. - Todd VerBeek 12:24, 12 April 2007 (EDT)
• Do not support -- yet. Cute idea, and well-done article, but too many offerings in the article aren't presently available no matter how much money you have. When Virgin Galactic, etc., actually start offering trips rather than just promising them in the future, I'll reconsider. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 20:52, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, good point Bill. I suppose it would also suck to feature it now, and then when things are really rockin' up there not want to feature it again. Waiting might be good. – cacahuate ^talk 23:08, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

So let's provisionally slot it for June 2015 - 2020, in case NASA starts taking people to the moon. I say June because that seems to be when the weather permits shuttle launches. -- Sapphire • (Talk) • 23:13, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Don't plan on seeing any Shuttle launches in 2015; those birds will be 23-31 years old by then, and fit for museum display only. - Todd VerBeek 09:39, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

Well, supposedly they don't want to send shuttles to the moon, but something closer to the Apollo modules. Plus, the current birds are going to retire in 2010, then we can all go to Dayton and see them up close and personal. -- Sapphire • (Talk) •

I though the Toyota Prius was being modified for moon launches, no? – cacahuate ^talk 11:15, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Yangon

"Known for its colonial architecture, which although decaying, remains an almost unique example of a 19th-century British colonial capital." A good number of sights, hotels and eateries listed. An interesting guide that has info about history, as well as stuff about staying safe/healthy. November to January is a good time to visit, so maybe a candidate for the empty December or January slots. -- Tim (writeme!) 15:50, 17 August 2007 (EDT)

• Do not support. Yes, it's an interesting article, but according to Wikipedia, this city has a population of nearly 5 million, and the coverage is awfully sparse for a city that size. (Incidentally, I'd also consider it more DotM material than OtBP for the same reason; it certainly isn't off the "Asian" beaten path.) I'd be willing to consider changing my vote if someone could make a convincing case that the coverage really is comprehensive despite the size of the city, but to actually get me to change it would also require a bunch of MoS work -- hours and locations for attractions, restaurants, etc. It's all doable, though. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 19:15, 18 September 2007 (EDT)
• Do not support, partly due to MoS concerns, partly given the recent unpleasantness. Jpatokal 06:37, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
• Do not support. Travel to Burma is an inherently political act and, by highlighting Yangon anywhere, wikitravel will take a side in the 'go nogo' battle. Best to let the reader decide. Also agree with Bill-on-the-Hill's comments about the sparseness of the page (the see section is pathetic, nothing confirms to the MOS, etc.) and am trying to fix some of that but, even if the article were a star, I would be against featuring it.--Wandering 14:38, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Comment: I don't think politics in themselves are a valid reason to object to a destination, or are we going to rule out ever having a DotM in, say, Israel or Iran? Actively dangerous destinations should of course be avoided, but I think things have quieted down enough now that I withdraw my objection on this ground. Jpatokal 22:21, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Agree about the politics; if the "unpleasantness" creates problems for the traveler, that's a consideration, but political statements aren't a reason to push or reject a destination. My other reasons for opposing this nomination remain, however. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 12:48, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
  • The point is that pushing Yangon as a destination is itself a political statement. I don't think the situation is the same as in Israel (a democratic state albeit with some issues) or Iran (also a kind of democracy albeit with a bit more than some issues!). Having a good guide for Yangon is one thing but featuring it as a destination feels, IMHO, a bit dirty. Anyway, I'll plug away on the Yangon page regardless.--Wandering 13:47, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

I kinda agree with Wandering - whether or not to go to Myanmar has been turned into a rather large moral question, and us putting it on the front page looks like we're saying yes. I wouldn't fight hard not to feature a Myanmar destination, but I would like everyone to understand that, if we do, it is definitely making a political statement, intentional or not – cacahuate ^talk 14:53, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] 2006

[edit] Bad Reichenhall

• Bad Reichenhall would be good for the summer.Kingjeff 13:59, 11 Feb 2006 (EST)
  • Do not support. No pictures, no map, no explanations or contact info for the very long laundry lists. Whoever called this a "Guide" was being awfully generous. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 10:13, 15 Feb 2006 (EST)
  • In your opinion, what status should it have? Kingjeff 17:34, 15 Feb 2006 (EST)
    • Usable, for reasons I give on your talk page. Definitely at the upper end of Usable, but more is needed before this qualifies as a DotM. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 19:47, 17 Feb 2006 (EST)

[edit] Belfast

• • Self-nominated by Professorbiscuit 08:22, 11 Oct 2004 (EDT).
  • This is really nice. I think I'd like to see a little more content, or maybe it's not as big a city as I think? Is there any month that would be specially good? I don't know if November is a great time to visit, or is summer better?
  • The "Do" section is a bit light, and some items from "See" should probably be moved there. Once that gets done this seems like a great article. -- Ryan 03:37, 1 Aug 2005 (EDT)
    • Done.Tim 11:27, 14 August 2006 (EDT)
  • Needs to be rated. kingjeff 00:30, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)
    • Done.Tim 11:27, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

Adding back into Detination of the Month Tim 11:27, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Cape Town

Added to the slush pile because this was nominated despite having been previously featured in 2005, and the nomination criteria specifically states that a destination should not be featured twice:

Cape Town is a very interesting city that is perfect to visit from November until March (summer) and therefore dits very good for December. The article is ok and it's an African destinations that everybody wants to go too! Therefore I would like to nominate it for december. Jan08:29, 20 June 2006

• Already featured back in September 2005. — Ravikiran 08:53, 20 June 2006 (EDT)
• Agreed, we really can't do this one again (at least not until everywhere else in the world has been featured once...). -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:23, 20 June 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Copenhagen

Well-constructed article on an important city, with good balance between main article and districts. (Some of the district articles could use some work, but there's time, and the totality of the articles is still excellent.) Plus, this photo just absolutely demands to get put on the Main Page! -- Bill-on-the-Hill 22:23, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

• The article needs some work. The districts are ok but the main Copenhagen pages lacks big chunks (Sleep, Drink, Cope, Learn). It should be better before a Cotw to get the formatting and content things done.-- Jan 12:13, 4 July 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Flores (Guatemala)

A very good guide article, also includes a couple of maps. -- DanielC 08:42, 3 May 2006 (EDT)

• I don't think it's quite ready yet. There should be some work to reconcile "Do" and "Get out" -- the latter is content-free at the moment apart from a somewhat garish map, while the former has lots of stuff that seems to be rather remote from the city. Shouldn't be too hard to fix that, though, and it's otherwise a nice article. One thing: is it DotM or OTBP? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:44, 3 May 2006 (EDT)
• The "garishness" of the Get Out map can be fixed easily enough with a less saturated background color; otherwise I kinda like it. Flores does seem a bit OTBP to me, being neither large, famous, nor in a heavily-visited region. And since one of its main attractions is nearby Tikal, I'd like to see that built up (the article, that is, not the site) before featuring Flores.- Todd VerBeek 10:40, 3 May 2006 (EDT)

I've moved most of the "See" items to "Get out", but I tend to agree with Todd that it is probably worth waiting on this article until the Tikal one is improved. I also thought that it may be better as a OTBP destination, but thought that as the base for the main site in Guatamala, it was difficult to say that it wasn't mainstream. -- DanielC 16:03, 4 May 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Graz

• Graz is good for January because of the ski resorts. Kingjeff
  • Several of the listings need to be updated according to the Manual of style. The info in the article looks good though. -- Ryan 03:06, 26 Dec 2005 (EST)
  • Needs article status and more info as mentioned above. Kingjeff 00:44, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)

[edit] Kruger National Park

Good article that will need a bit of MoSing, as some info is in the wrong sections. The Understand needs to be split up into climate/fauna etc. Having said this, the info is there and a CotW would sort it out. Possible candidate for Feb 07? It is also an African article, and we haven't had an African DotM since September 05. Finally, having this as DotM might also draw a few editors down to South African articles so we can get some more info into them! -- Tim 06:55, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

• Whoa! This still needs quite a bit of work -- sections are unpopulated, key contact info is missing (and may be hard to get), and so on. Also, there needs to be discussion as to whether it's DotM or OTBP. I'm in favor of getting this into usable shape, for all the reasons you cite above, but it first needs to be improved to where it's ready, then scheduled into the appropriate slot (more likely OTBP than DotM, IMHO). -- Bill-on-the-Hill 08:48, 15 August 2006 (EDT)
• Agree with Bill contentwise, but I do think this (just) qualifies for DOTM: it's probably Africa's best-known and busiest national park (a quick Googling says over 500,000 visitors yearly), although the huge size does compensate to some extent. Jpatokal 08:59, 15 August 2006 (EDT)
  • Okay. It's on the list of things to do! Tim 12:06, 15 August 2006 (EDT)
  • Since it was posed as a CotW with the statement that it was nominated for Feb 07, I've made it so, but I'm not convinced it's going to get there from a quality perspective. We should keep an eye on it once the CotW editing is done, to be sure that it really is good enough. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 21:30, 14 September 2006 (EDT)
    • Not as many people ended up contributing to this when it was COTW as I had hoped, and I will have nowhere near enough time to make this DotM standard, so I think it should be removed from the nominations list until it gets alot more material. It will make a fantastic article though because it is a fantastic place! Tim 13:20, 25 October 2006 (EDT)
      • OK, it's getting slushed, reluctantly. It would be really nice if someone would make the effort to get it up to standard (and thanks for your tries, Tim) -- we could definitely use a DotM like this. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 10:54, 24 November 2006 (EST)

[edit] Montreal

Has a map, very thorough article and good city to visit. Kingjeff 16:56, 3 March 2006 (EST)

• Not bad, but Montreal is too big a city to fit smoothly into a single article. Should be broken into districts and much content moved to same, at which time it should be revisited, as it is indeed a cool place well worthy of being a DotM. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 16:50, 4 March 2006 (EST)
• There seems to be no current advocacy for this one, nor any move to address the issues. Can it be slushed? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 21:44, 17 May 2006 (EDT)

I don't agree that Montreal needs to be split into districts, as the districts are not familiar to many travellers. Better to keep all of the content on Montreal, this is great content, for all to discover.

[edit] Munich

Most people would associate Munich with September, because of Oktoberfest, but I think it would be great for the month of June/July.

• Nominated by Sapphire 13:42, 18 Apr 2005 (EDT)
• Nomination withdrawn until August is debated, so I have time to put in districts. Sapphire 16:52, 19 Apr 2005 (EDT)
• I would suggest tightening up the formatting a little better (according to the wikitravel guidelines) and improving the grammar. --User:kenliu
• Support for March.Kingjeff 21:06, 31 Jan 2006 (EST)
• Would August be unreasonable? Gives enough time to make plans for Oktoberfest. Yes, the formatting and grammar could use some work, but there's plenty of time for that and the content is in good shape already. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 08:59, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)
• I would like to get 1 location in before FIFA World Cup. Kingjeff 23:26, 2 Feb 2006 (EST)
• Is there anyway we can bump Munich up to May? Kingjeff 22:10, 7 Feb 2006 (EST)
  • Districting is not complete, there is still some duplication and most of the districts don't follow the template. Even the main page is a bit odd. Jpatokal 02:23, 8 Feb 2006 (EST)
  • Does all the districts really need to be there? Kingjeff 19:42, 8 Feb 2006 (EST)
  • They don't all need to be filled up, but they should at least be formatted correctly, and all sights/destinations should be in the right place. Jpatokal 01:29, 9 Feb 2006 (EST)
• Considering how great this would be for Sep/Oct, I think it should probably wait. --Evan 10:28, 27 February 2006 (EST)
• Is there any German city we can nominate and have a ligitimate chance of gettin the DOTM before June? Kingjeff 21:21, 27 February 2006 (EST)
  • Berlin is already nominated: contentwise it's there, it just needs a lot of grunt work to district properly... so if you want to see it as DOTM, get to work =) Jpatokal 23:52, 27 February 2006 (EST)
• Districting needs work. Few attractions have locations or phone numbers listed -- just websites. Too little Manual-of-style. Looks like a slush pile entry to me -- and then renominate when someone thinks it's ready rather than nominating an article that would we all wish was ready. -- Colin 18:46, 20 March 2006 (EST)
• Anyone object to placing Munich in the slush pile? I doubt few people will have a signifcant problem with MoS, with the exception being the clubs and discos. The districts are coming together, but Thalkirchen sucks. Haidhausen and Olympic area could be better. Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 17:12, 18 May 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Newcastle (New South Wales)

Looks like a fairly good article. Could be a little more MoSie and a few more sleep listings. Plus, it's summer there in November, December 2006. Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 00:01, 20 May 2006 (EDT)

• I don't think it's quite there yet. "See" and "Understand" both need significant work, and significant info is missing on some of the entries. Every reason to believe it could be put into DotM shape by (austral) summer, though. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 23:40, 31 May 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Rotorua

The most visted tourist destitnation in New Zealand. The Weather is generally good. But the summer monthes are preferable. Rotorua is home to the world famous geysers and thermal mud pools, it also the home to zorbing. basically Rotorua is a great place if you want extreme sports OR if you are more interested in relaxing it has many great spas with the mineral from the thermal pools.

• Please read #Nominate above. Destination of the month is a way to feature the best Wikitravel articles, and this does not meet that criteria. -- Ryan 19:28, 18 October 2006 (EDT)
• Oppose. Article is not up to snuff for DotM: for example, the Sleep section has only one hotel.
• Oppose, but a question: just how big and developed is the place? If it's OTBP-size, the article is really not that far from ready. As far as I can tell, the entire Rotorua district has a population of only 50,000 or so, which means that it (1) may be appropriate for OTBP and (2) might not have to have that much information added to become comprehensive. Still will need lots of MoS work, though. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:41, 28 October 2006 (EDT)
  • This one doesn't seem to be getting legs. Any objections to slush-piling it? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 22:24, 3 December 2006 (EST)

[edit] Salzburg

• Salzburg (city)- Salzburg would be good for May 2008 since Austria is a co-host for Euro 2008.
  • Listings need to be MoS'd. The Eat, Drink and Sleep listings also need more details (addresses, prices etc). Jpatokal 23:55, 1 Jan 2006 (EST)
  • Needs understand section plus some additional info mentioned above. Kingjeff 00:39, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)

[edit] Stockholm

Guide article, I've added lots of images and some more information. / Adestro

• It's close, but a go/no-go decision should be made as to the use of districts. There is a big long section that lays the districts out as sub-articles, but no district articles exist yet, let alone have any content. Either use 'em or purge 'em. Some copyediting would also be useful, but nothing major. Your added photos are certainly nice. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 22:53, 25 February 2006 (EST)
  • Yeah, I agree. I added that section just before posting this nomination. Perhaps we should wait until the districts have been done, I don't live in Stockholm so I'm unable to contribute to them. /Adestro 15:26, 26 February 2006 (EST)

[edit] Torino

• Torino for February 2006. Torino is hosting the 2006 Winter Olympic Games and it would be an excellent DotM for Feb. Our coverage of Torino right now is so-so but I bet if we put our minds to it we could really get it cooking. --Evan 00:09, 17 Dec 2005 (EST)
  • Good choice. But more info is needed before it'll get picked. Kingjeff
  • Support. I realize I've already supported Hangzhou, but the Winter Olympics are just too good a tie-in. If we can pull the article together, would others supprot Torino for Feb? I'll put together a list of what needs to get done. Majnoona 14:45, 29 Jan 2006 (EST)
  • Do not support. This is a perfect example of why a longer lead time is desirable for DotM. There is too much left to do on the article on the spur of the moment, and in any event, it's far too late to be able to use this page for travel for the Olympics, since lodging in particular will be nearly impossible to find at this late date. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 15:09, 29 Jan 2006 (EST)
  • Against. I agree completely with Bill, it's way too late for Torino. I wouldn't mind nudging it onto the Main Page though... but in the meantime, time to start polishing up Vancouver for 2010? Jpatokal 07:14, 31 Jan 2006 (EST)
    • Agree about the Main Page, and we do have the 2008 Olympics coming before Vancouver... -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:18, 31 Jan 2006 (EST)
  • It would be nice to in some way feature Torino during the Olympics, but I agree that it's too late to make it DOTM. -- Ryan 21:13, 31 Jan 2006 (EST)

[edit] Waitomo Caves (New Zealand)

Waitomo Caves is just a 2 hour drive from Auckland. It is home to the famous Waitomo Caves, Glowworms,There are many places to view the glowworms including some where you just take a boat road, to others with a 4 hour walk. Apart from the glowworm there is alot to do in the area including a free Angoran rabbit shearing show. —The preceding comment was added by 220.245.179.131 (talk • contribs) 18 Oct 2006.

• Please read #Nominate above, as well as Wikitravel:What is an article?. Destination of the month is a way to feature the best Wikitravel articles, and this does not meet that criteria. -- Ryan 19:28, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

[edit] 2005

[edit] Stuttgart

• Stuttgart- is a beutiful city and will be hosting the World Cup in 2006. So, May would be a good time to put it up as Destination of the Month.
  • Need pictures, formatting into the standard template and more places to Sleep. Jpatokal 23:20, 11 Dec 2005 (EST)
    • Are we basing cities on the actual city or based on what wikitravel has? I understand not nominating a city that has little or no information, but you can only go so far with that.
      • The criteria for choosing a DotM are at the top of this page. --Evan 10:56, 12 Dec 2005 (EST)

[edit] Walnut Creek

• Walnut Creek. Lacks a picture, but otherwise a very complete and readable article. --Evan 13:42, 27 Jun 2005 (EDT)
  • While I like this article, I don't think Walnut Creek is a destination per se, especially if Frankfurt was already put into the slush pile as a good article but a less than ideal destination. Walnut Creek might be better used as an example of how to write an interesting article, rather than a destination of the month. -- Ryan 03:37, 1 Aug 2005 (EDT)

[edit] Ipoh

• Ipoh. Good chinese food paradise.
  • Nominated by Maldini8289 10:47, 14 April 2005 (EST)
  • No Sleep listings, and needs to be checked carefully because some content is copyvio'd from Wikipedia... Jpatokal 01:48, 15 Apr 2005 (EDT)
  • The sleep listings are done, the content are not copyvio'd from Wikipedia as it's mainly all edited by me, a local resident. Maldini8289 1:18, 19 May 2005 (EST)
  • The formatting does not follow the MoS (although I just inserted the standard headings). In particular, the Eat/Drink/Buy listings should cover [i]places[/i] to eat/drink/buy, not things. Of course an intro paragraph for local specialities is great, but the focus of the listing should be on restaurants/bars/shops.
  • In my honest opinion, the Eat/Drink/Buy listings can't just cover on particular places or restaurants/bars/shops because Ipoh's variety of great food are at many places around the city. Hope that the current listing won't be changed so that many travellers won't miss out these food when they come to Ipoh. Thanks a lot, Jpatokal, for helping to edit. Maldini8289 13:20, 23 May 2005 (EST)
    • We could say that about most destinations. The idea here is yes, to give travellers some idea of what sort of foods they might find, and point out a couple of local specialties which are not to be missed. The idea of the listings though is provide names and addresses, contact information, opening hours, and a short review of actual places where they can enjoy a nice meal. DOM is a showcase for our best articles. Ipoh seems like a lovely place to visit, but the article just isn't one of our best (yet). We really must have some listings for individual places. Some more images would be nice too. -- Mark 03:46, 23 May 2005 (EDT)

[edit] Frankfurt

• Frankfurt
  • nominated by Mark 04:41, 30 Aug 2004 (EDT)
    • The museums listings need to be completed at the very least. -- Nils
    • Good article, but a terribly boring city to visit =) Jpatokal 05:27, 30 Aug 2004 (EDT)
      • I tend to agree, but didn't want to say it ;-) I guess it depends on what you like. And nobody (yet) said DoM's have to be "exciting". ;-) -- Nils
        • Ok, let me say it. DoM candidates should be at least interesting, if not exciting. The purpose (I assume) of the DOM is to show off what we have, and tempt new visitors to dig further; showcasing (say) a derelict coal-mining town in the ex-Soviet rust belt is hardly likely to do that. Having said that, my 12 hour experience of Frankfurt doesn't suggest that it is *that* uninteresting. -- Chris j wood 11:36, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

[edit] Okavango Delta

• Okavango Delta
  • One of the most famous and beautiful places on earth and still no information in wikitravel... Nominated by Fluglotse2000
    • Uh, this one might fit better on Wikitravel:Articles needing attention, "Destination of the Month" is kinda for showing off the finished (as much as anything is finished on a wiki) guides we're proud of-- usually with some sort of seasonal tie-in. They should really be as complete as possible and Okavango, beautiful as it may be, has a ways to go ;-) Majnoona 11:18, 6 Apr 2005 (EDT)

[edit] South Africa

• South Africa - Best place on earth ;-)
  • Nominated by Fluglotse2000 01/April/2005
  • Rather big for a destination, I think... can you suggest a specific city/attraction? Jpatokal 05:26, 1 Apr 2005 (EST)
    • Okay, why not the Western Cape or Cape Region, with Cape Town, the Cape Peninsula and the Cape Winelands. Fluglotse2000 13:39 (GMT) 01 April 2005
  • I agree, a city or region would be better. I'll take a look at those suggestions and maybe nominate one of them... Majnoona 11:33, 5 Apr 2005 (EDT)

[edit] United States

• United States
  • Nominated by Rspga49 19:30 (EST) April 4, 2005
  • That's kinda a vague destination (because it encompasses too many sub-topics) and not a really exciting article. Also, the vast majority of the subregions are stubs. How about choosing a specific and interesting destination within the US, working on its article until it is complete, informative, and interesting, and then nominating that. A DoM article need not be about a famous or important place. It should instead be an interesting destination with a Really Great Article written about it. -- Colin 19:43, 4 Apr 2005 (EDT)
  • I agree with Colin. Too broad and hard to tie to a season or month. Majnoona 11:33, 5 Apr 2005 (EDT)

[edit] 2004

[edit] London

• London
  • Nominated by Rspga49 16:09 October 17, 2004 (EDT)
  • A great article I think everyone would agree-- when's a good month? Majnoona 01:45, 30 Oct 2004 (EDT)
  • Currently, London sufferes from linkitis — the use of web links instead of trivial stuff like descriptions, directions, addresses and phone numbers. Needs cleanup first. -- Colin 21:33, 10 Mar 2005 (EST)

[edit] San Francisco

• San Francisco
  • Nominated by Chip 10:14, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)
  • Support with two caveats: the Districts section should give brief summaries of what to expect, and the picture needs a little work (poorly scanned?) Jpatokal 11:15, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)
  • I think San Francisco needs some cleanup work. --Evan 20:06, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)

[edit] Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park

• Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park (Australia)
  • Having tried in vain to find a good African article, how about this one from Australia. It has a couple of good pictures, and good text. And I can vouch from personal experience that it is a fascinating place if you have never seen the 'Red Center' before -- Chris j wood 21:46, 5 Sep 2004 (EDT)
  • Not bad contentwise, but needs a little cleanup. Some listings are also quite stubby (just the name with no content). Jpatokal 01:24, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)
    • Agreed, too unfinnished. -- Nils
  • I'm slowly working on this one (I don't think it's ready yet), so people may want to check back over the next month or two. It's probably not a good southern summer destination anyway: humid and rainy. -- Hypatia 22:36, 28 Nov 2004 (EST)

[edit] Atlanta

• Atlanta
  • Nominated by Rspga49 18:00 October 1, 2004 (EDT)
  • There's a lot missing from Atlanta before it really can be considered. E.g. there is no Sleep, Drink, Stay Safe, Picture,.... Keep up the good work and try to get it into shape before nominating it. Have a look at the current destination of the month or previous destinations to get an idea of what we're looking for. -- Colin 18:23, 1 Oct 2004 (EDT)

[edit] Valdosta

• Valdosta
  • Nominated by Rspga49 17:50 October 1, 2004 (EDT)
  • Valdosta appears to be composed of two kinds of things that need work: 1) empty sections and 2) sections whose listings are not formatted in the Manual of Style manner and also one section (Get out) which is not really a list of interesting places you might go to get out of town (it's just a list of nearby cities).Keep up the good work and try to get it into shape before nominating it. Have a look at the current destination of the month or previous destinations to get an idea of what we're looking for. -- Colin 18:23, 1 Oct 2004 (EDT)

[edit] Upgraded articles

This section is for articles that were formerly slushpiled, but have been promoted back to DotM-candidate status as the objections were addressed. Looking at some of these articles, in particular their histories, might give you some ideas about getting things on the current slushpile into usable condition. Note: If you add items to this list, please try to keep them in alphabetical, rather than chronological, order, for ease in sorting through the material.

[edit] Berlin

• Berlin- Berlin would be good for May 2006 since FIFA World Cup Germany will be there. kingjeff
  • I support Berlin for February 2006. Kingjeff 23:45, 1 Jan 2006 (EST)
  • Berlin's division into districts is badly incomplete, with tons of duplication and most info still listed only on the main page. Jpatokal 23:55, 1 Jan 2006 (EST)
  • It's listed on the main page. It's a very thorough article. I don't think it's as bad as you think it is. It's a good article and a good city to visit. I think any traveller can pretty much fill there vacation to Berlin with this information. Kingjeff 00:21, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)
  • Do not support. This article is badly in need of breaking into districts, precisely as Jpatokal says. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 22:56, 13 Jan 2006 (EST)
  • Do not support. But I think as soon as the district issue is taken care of it should be revisited. Majnoona 11:53, 15 Feb 2006 (EST)
• Re-slushed following 2007 discussion; see above. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:57, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Budapest

• Attractive city with lots to see. The articles are good now and the pictures are really good too. -- DanielC 16:59, 9 Jun 2005 (EDT)
  • I've been to Budapest in January, and it's not much fun then (except maybe ice-skating and mulled wine at Varosliget). I would be all in favor of a springtime nomination though. Jpatokal 03:40, 17 Dec 2005 (EST)
  • 2 or 3 sections needs to be done. kingjeff 00:35, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)

[edit] La Paz

• La Paz - South American (see above). Quite a small article, but information in each of the categories. DanielC 08:19, 4 Nov 2005 (EST)
  • Indeed, a little short but otherwise OK. Not sure we need South America now though, as we just had the Falklands... Jpatokal 02:31, 16 Nov 2005 (EST)
  • Not eligible due to article status. kingjeff 00:35, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)
  • The above issues appear to have been addressed, and it's been re-added as a DotM candidate. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:08, 24 November 2006 (EST)

[edit] Route 66

• A historic highway in the United States, Route 66 has been a classic itinerary for years, and user Rt66lt has been making huge strides with this article. Probably best if featured between April and October when there isn't snow anywhere along the route.
  • Nominated by Ryan 14:24, 10 Sep 2005 (EDT)
  • Support contentwise, but this needs better pictures — one good enough to showcase on the front page, and others to liven up the text. Some maps would also come in very handy. Jpatokal 16:16, 10 Sep 2005 (EDT)
  • Maps and pictures now in place (I'd use the "Cadillac Ranch" photo to illustrate the article), so it's back on the nominee list. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:22, 24 November 2006 (EST)

[edit] Swansea

• Swansea for October 2005 as this is an especially exciting month to visit Wales' City by the Sea: The US$60 million National Waterfront Museum opens its doors on October 17 [4]. Also, the city will host the annual Swansea Festival of Music and the Arts from September 30 to October 22 (the second largest festival of its kind in the UK) [5], from October 1 to 9 the Swansea Fringe will bring festivity and entertainment to the streets of city after a twenty year absence, and finally The Dylan Thomas Centre in the city will reverberate to the sound of Thomas' poetry and prose during the annual Dylan Thomas festival, which runs from October 27 to November 9.
  • Support. Could use a couple more pictures, and "Media" isn't a standard header, but otherwise very nice. DOTM for October sounds reasonable unless Munich gets re-nominated. -- Ryan 03:37, 1 Aug 2005 (EDT)
  • Oppose, half-heartedly. The solitary picture just isn't good enough, and we just had Winchester in July, so it's a bit early for the UK to come again. The formatting is also a bit off in many parts. Jpatokal 00:22, 20 Sep 2005 (EDT)
• These objections seem to have been addressed; it's now not only back in the Candidates list, but apparently heading for DotM in July 07. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 17:06, 14 June 2007 (EDT)