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Archive for Wikitravel:Destination of the Month candidates. When an article is selected for DotM, please move its discussion from the root page to this page, so that the root can focus on future DotMs rather than past ones.

[edit] 2008

[edit] September

[edit] Ottawa {DoTM)

Attractive capital of an important country, with a well-composed and -illustrated article. It would be better if the map reflected the geography of the city rather than the mass transit system, but at least it has a map. May, maybe? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 19:33, 22 December 2007 (EST)

Support. Definitely not a winter destination, but September should stil be bearable, or it can be pushed earlier in summer? (Eg. Bandung is good any time of year.) Still needs a few MoS tweaks, but it's pretty good as it is. A nice new OSM map wouldn't hurt though... Jpatokal 03:32, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

Support. It can be a winter destination and has a "Winterlude" festival similar to Quebec or Harbin. However, the best times to go would be either the Tulip Festival in spring or the autumn when leaves are changing. Pashley 19:46, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

Do not Support It can be a winter destination, true, so I would rather give space for summer-mostly destination.

[edit] August

[edit] Bandung (DotM)

Good article. It provides a detail information of the city. Bandung is famous for its beautiful scenery with mountains surrounding the city, nice foods and the cool weather throughout the year. It is definitely one of the great destination for traveller. --Hkurniawan 07:30, 18 March 2008 (EDT).

Support. Excellent maps too. The article's English needs a little polishing (much of it was written by a non-native speaker), but it's pretty close to a star if you ask me. Jpatokal 07:48, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Support. Brilliant article in a region not ofter featured. --Nick 07:57, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Support. This article may be a little too detail. Perhaps better with some additional pictures. --DanielK 07:57, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Support. Fantastic article. --Peter ^Talk 14:17, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

Support. A very comprehensive article. Frequenttrekker 10:23, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

Marginally Oppose, for the time being. The article's strengths are obvious and I agree with the analysis above. However, there are some down sides. Demographically, Bandung qualifies as a "huge city," and the structure of the article is such as to suggest districtifying as is done for other huge cities. It also has a number of MoS issues, particularly in the "Eat" section. I'd rather see it put into the preferred format before it's used; the content is good enough that I'd support it once that's done. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 10:04, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Mesa Verde National Park (OtBP)

This is a very interesting locale, located quite far away from any major city. The Ancestral Puebloan ruins are very well-preserved.

Support. The article looks well-preserved, too, and it has a map. Gorilla Jones 10:47, 16 December 2007 (EST)

• Support, but lukewarm. The article is well done, and it's certainly an interesting place. However, there are two concerns. One, the nearest towns (Durango (Colorado) and Cortez) have only rather sketchy articles, and most of the people who visit MVNP will stay in one of those towns rather than in the park. Two, and something to consider broadly when nominating United States National Parks, I'm not sure it's even possible to do an article on this park in wiki form that approaches the content of more traditional guidebooks, etc. Is it really one of our "best" articles in terms of showing why Wikitravel is an improvement on commercial products? All of that said, I do support it on its own merits; July and August are good months there. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 12:15, 16 December 2007 (EST)
• Support. As someone who's made some contributions to this article, I'm delighted to see it get nominated for DoTM. However, as Bill pointed out, the Durango and Cortez articles really need some work. We really must consider these sorts of things when nominating a National Park article for something, instead of thinking of that article in isolation. And yes, July and August are great times for Mesa Verde. After that, just about half the Park shuts down for the season. PerryPlanet 01:04, 14 January 2008 (EST)

[edit] July

[edit] Mount Fuji (DotM)

High-quality article with a decidedly different spin on what the "beaten path" is all about. It's on my lifetime list of things to do, and I'd definitely use this article in doing it. Suggested for August, with Windsor (above) moving to DotM instead. (Note that there is a "beaten path" on Fuji, but that doesn't keep it from being OtBP...) -- Bill-on-the-Hill 14:54, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

Support - very good article. -- -- Tim (writeme!) 16:00, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

• Support – I think the article looks really good. I reorganized a little bit, and removed the external links from the sleep section... there's several more places listed on them, but only 2 in the actual article... is that sufficient, or should we try to pull some more off those sites? Also see Talk:Mount Fuji for another question. Otherwise I think it looks pretty good. – cacahuate ^talk 16:28, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

• Meh – I have nothing against the article (I wrote much of it), but Ashikaga, Japan is OTBP as I write this, and the much linked to Fuji Five Lakes article remains red. So I'd like to push this into 2008, and then schedule it in June/July before the climbing season starts. Jpatokal 17:45, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

• Do not really support. The article in itself is very good, no question about that. However, I am not quite sure that this is a Off the beaten path destination, it is a place most people (including Westerners) have heard of, and know it is possible to climb. It is not a place that people would discover on the top page and say "well, I did not know about that". Previous Japanese features such as Ashikaga or Iya Valley are more representative of an Otbp to me....Tensaibuta 08:49, 14 June 2007 (EDT)
  • So would you support this as a DotM instead? And I agree that it's not very OtBP — it's the only hike I've ever done where I've gotten stuck in a human traffic jam. Jpatokal 09:15, 14 June 2007 (EDT)
    • Personally, I'd still say OtBP. Most people have "heard of" Fuji, but relatively few outside Japan have given serious thought to climbing it. Or are there more gaijin on the mountain than I think? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:28, 14 June 2007 (EDT) OK, I give in. DotM rather than OtBP it is; how about it for early summer 2008? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 22:41, 30 November 2007 (EST)
  • I would strongly support as DotM. As for the gaijins on the mountain... even more than in Roppongi on Saturday night :) Tensaibuta 09:37, 14 June 2007 (EDT)
    • Yeah, it's one of those rites of passage for gaijin staying in Tokyo for even a slightly longer time — and I'd wager that, percentagewise, more gaijin in Tokyo have done the trek than Tokyo natives. Jpatokal 10:05, 14 June 2007 (EDT)
      • Elsewhere, too. Japanese friends have asked me why so many gaijin climb Fuji. I wouldn't object to it being DoTM, but I could still see it as OtBP, given how out-of-the-way Shizuoka is, and how you have to set aside probably three days for it — it's something resident gaijin are more likely to do than traveling gaijin on one or two week itineraries. It's OtBP for the average visitor to Japan. Gorilla Jones 10:22, 14 June 2007 (EDT)
      • Strictly speaking, it's entirely possible to visit Fuji without climbing it, and this option should perhaps be given a little more weight in the article. Jpatokal 14:24, 1 July 2007 (EDT)
        • Support, though I personally consider it to be more a DoTM than OtBP. Although Shizuoka itself is not a destination, it is only a short hop on the shinkansen from Tokyo. And, as Jpatokal states, legging it up Fuji seems to be thing Western travelers in particular see as a feather in their cap of experiences. However, OtBP is also not an unreasonable assessment.... WindHorse 12:48, 14 June 2007 (EDT

• Do not support for July or Aug, Ohrid seems more suitable for then To all supporters: Although this is a great article can we please move it to a later date? I feel strongly that the best time to experience Ohrid is July or possbly August, while Fuji Mountain is equally interesting at latter months of the year. Please consider switching it for Ohrid in July. I do support Mount Fuji for any later months. Thanks.
• Do not support "These are not cast in stone, and the order can be changed if, for example, an excellent guide for a timely event is found." and I agree that in this case for July the timely event is in Ohrid, so I support Ohrid instead for July. * Celia 75.222.59.95 23:31, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

As anyone who has read the article knows, Mount Fuji is only open for climbing in July and August. Hence, no, it's not "equally interesting at latter months of the year". Gorilla Jones 08:10, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

• Not support Ok, seems just a question of timing here, so lets have Mount Fuji in August, and Ohrid in July. I have read the program on the Ohrid Summer Festival and it is a shame not to feature this when a large number of internationally famoust artists is performing there in July. I will try to make some polishing to fit our standards, please join me its mainly technical work, the info is there. I love the Ohrid article and its a good timing... Miko 09:13, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
• Not in July The two destinations are both mountains for July, we need diversity and I quite like the Ohrid suggestion. I have been there few years ago and I know entire Skopje goes to Ohrid in the summer, so it is definitely the beaten path in Macedonia. I am not that good at cleaning up, what exactly needs to be changed in that article so we can do it for July? ElenaJ 16:08, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Dharamsala (OtBP)

Needs a bit of MoS work, but almost ready to go. Note that, as usual in India, few places have anything in the way of a street address (although a map would be great...). Best in February-March when the Dalai Lama drops into town. Jpatokal 06:49, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

• Support. It's a cool destination, decent article, and I just uploaded a (shitty) map that needs much improvement, but at least gives some guidance. – cacahuate ^talk 18:08, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
• Marginal. This article has a huge amount of white space (at least as I see it in my browser) that should be eliminated. Also, I take Jani's point about lack of street addresses, but it would be nice to at least give hours on the eating places if possible. Finally, and maybe most important, we don't normally use Usable-level articles in OtBP. Fixing the previous concerns would allow it to be promoted to Guide, but until that happens, I'm not sure I can support this. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:33, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
  • My objections have been met. Support, and I'm provisionally scheduling it for March, bumping Cape Maclear to February. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 18:55, 30 November 2007 (EST)
  • Suggest moving it to April or May. March is still quite cold out there. --Wandering 17:21, 9 January 2008 (EST)
• Remember that an OtBP that appears in March will still be featured until mid-April, unlike the DotMs. Your point is valid, but because of that delayed appearance, I think March OtBP should be OK. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 17:36, 9 January 2008 (EST)
  • nw. July is probably the perfect month because of the weather and because of HMDL's birthday but what in this world is perfect anyway!--Wandering 17:51, 9 January 2008 (EST)
    • I've now pushed this into July, because we had an Indian destination as OtBP in Jan already. Jpatokal 06:30, 15 February 2008 (EST)
• Support. The article looks reasonably complete (perhaps a few excursions in the Get out section would be nice). Why isn't it already a 'guide' article?--Wandering 14:43, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] June

[edit] Chicago (DoTM)

Influential city in the heart of America. It boasts an expansive and informative article complete with many pictures. All times of the year are excellent in Chicago but the summer is most active with many festivals and activities around the city. Best for August or September 2007. AZGSB9 19:50, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

For the whole city, I'd suggest June to coincide with decent weather and Blues Fest, or Jazz Fest at the end of August/beginning of September (with much less decent weather). Chicago/Bronzeville would be a great OtBP for February, since that's Black History Month in the United States. The weather is usually bad in February, though. Gorilla Jones 12:25, 28 July 2007 (EDT)

• Support. This has made enormous strides recently and is now an exceptionally good huge-city compilation of articles. June 2008 looks right. I'd have to take some issue with Marc's assessment, however; it's more accurate to say that all times of year are equally nasty for weather, just in different ways ... climate is not one of Chicago's big attractions! -- Bill-on-the-Hill 10:04, 1 August 2007 (EDT)
• Support. Marc and I have finally finished what we intended to do with these articles, and I think June is a fine month to pick. If we don't have another dotm handy, I think it would also be a good May dotm, so people planning for Blues Fest (which begins right up against the beginning of June) might easily find our guide. --Peter ^Talk 23:51, 8 January 2008 (EST)

[edit] Sligo (OtBP)

User:The.Q has done a fantastic job with this small, historically-significant Irish town. Good for spring, maybe? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 12:30, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

• Support. Great article. Gorilla Jones 20:37, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
• Support. Thanks for the praise *(big grin)*. Obviously I would support this, if my vote counts. --The.Q^(t)(c) 08:21, 11 December 2007 (EST)
  • Hey, your opinion counts just as much as anyone else's! :-) -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:58, 11 December 2007 (EST)
  • Great. I'm working on a map, to help complete this article, but it'll probably take me a while, as I'm not very experienced at cartography! --The.Q^(t)(c) 05:08, 12 December 2007 (EST)

[edit] May

[edit] Gori (OtBP)

Gori makes for a very interesting read, anything in Georgia (the country) is way off the beaten path, and our guide is incomparably better and more comprehensive than any printed guides I've ever seen. I've visited the city three times, but still wasn't even aware of half the information now in the guide. The best times of the year to visit are anywhere from April to October, as it may be harder to visit Uplistsikhe during the winter. --Peter ^Talk 01:09, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Support. It's a great article, a great new region to feature, and I want a picture of Stalin up there to share Lenin's glory! Jpatokal 06:56, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

• Support. Good article. I just saw a new book about Young Stalin that was Gori heavy. Gorilla Jones 20:37, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
• Support. Well done, and definitely OtBP. I wouldn't object to a one-month slippage to break up destinations in the FSU, however. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 19:05, 30 November 2007 (EST)
• Support. Pashley 05:38, 12 December 2007 (EST)

[edit] Bergen (DotM)

Great article (only needs a map) and, I believe, DOTM's first foray into Norway. Article recommends May-August. Jpatokal 22:57, 9 February 2008 (EST)

• Support. Wow, this is a great article. Could use a headliner image though (in addition to the map). PerryPlanet 23:01, 9 February 2008 (EST)
• Support, to be sure, but some other work is needed -- lots of red links in "Get out" and at least one photo that seems to be on the fritz, in addition to the map. None of these are show stoppers, however. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 23:46, 9 February 2008 (EST)

Photo now off the fritz. 80.202.112.184 17:51, 11 February 2008 (EST)

No red links in the "Get out" section, though the linked articles are pretty thin. 129.177.169.42 11:30, 12 February 2008 (EST)

[edit] April

[edit] Matsuyama (DotM)

Remarkably thorough article, in good MoS shape. It kinda straddles the line between DotM and OtBP, but it's a pretty popular destination for Japanese and not entirely obscure to visitors to Japan, so I'll tip for DotM. Best times are Mar-Jun, Sep-Nov. Jpatokal 00:58, 9 January 2008 (EST)

• Support. Borders on a TMI problem, but if straying from perfection, that's definitely the direction to stray in. How about May? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:56, 14 January 2008 (EST)
• Support. May is fine, but mid-April gets the cherry blossoms. Gorilla Jones 18:50, 14 January 2008 (EST)

[edit] Sihanoukville (OtBP)

Now that the guesthouse edit war has died down... one of those up-and-coming destinations where WT whups the competition. Best in Nov-Feb. Jpatokal 06:49, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

• Wait and see. From the sound of the article, there are some key amenities -- airport, major hotel -- that are in the process of getting reconstructed. Might it be better to wait for those to re-open, and then pounce? The quality of the article is certainly more than adequate for OtBP, but it might be a service to the traveler to list it only when the destination is in good shape. Jani? Sounds like you have experience with the place. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:13, 27 October 2007 (EDT)
  • The town is easily accessed from Phnom Penh, the airport already fields flights from Siem Reap and accommodation is not a problem as long as you don't demand five stars. And this is OtbP, after all! Jpatokal 00:08, 28 October 2007 (EDT)
• Support. Agreed that, while more may emerge, transport links are in place and widely advertised throughout the region. Good article, too. Gorilla Jones 20:37, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

[edit] March

[edit] Ho Chi Minh City (DotM)

Nominated with some misgivings -- for one thing, it's a large enough city to possibly justify districting -- but what's there is well written, the city is important and well-known, and we're running short on city-size DotMs. Would it work in the spring? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 18:48, 30 November 2007 (EST)

• Support. Yeah, I like that article. March would be a good time - April, particularly the latter half, will be a bit too hot. Gorilla Jones 19:17, 30 November 2007 (EST)

• Support. March sounds good. Jpatokal 15:34, 15 December 2007 (EST)

[edit] Sheki (OtBP)

This is a great smaller city to explore in Azerbaijan. It has few international tourist every year, but the historical sites from lost civilizations (Caucus Albanians), ancient fortresses, unique food, and friendly atmosphere this is a place that should be visited by more. I have lived here for one year, and it is a pity to see so many ex pats living in Baku, Ganja, and Tbilisi but so few visiting this great place. The Greater Caucus mountains are beautiful no matter if they are covered by snow or by verdant grass and trees. I have been active in writing this part of the guide, and I will continue, but it would be even better to have more contributions and visits. Finally, although Sheki is beautiful all year long, it is best enjoyed from late March to June, when the weather is near perfect every day.Cupcakecommander 09:18, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

• This has the makings of a very good OtBP, but it needs considerable tidying up:
  • The map is almost surely a copyvio and needs to be removed or replaced.
  • WAY too many photos. Pick the 6-8 best and most illustrative (that are consistent with our copyleft policy) and use those.
  • Many listings need to be formatted according to the MoS, and there's a lot of white space to get rid of.

This article has enormous promise as an OtBP, though, so thanks, and once the formatting issues are resolved, let's look at it very seriously for next March or thereabouts. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:52, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

How is the Sheki page looking after the CoTW? What else should be changed to make it a viable OtBP candidate? Cupcakecommander 02:10, 13 August 2007 (EDT)

I'll answer this, for the time being, on the talk page. --Peter ^Talk 02:29, 13 August 2007 (EDT)

Peter just put up a new map of Sheki, so is it ready for OTBP now? I think that it would be great in March or April.. Cupcakecommander 03:03, 13 November 2007 (EST)

Meets my objections entirely. Support, and I'm provisionally scheduling it. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 15:37, 16 November 2007 (EST)

• Support. I think it's up to OtBP standards now, and it is such a lovely place. I'll be sure to run through it once more for extra MoS polish before it gets featured (Chicago's eating up all my wiki-time right now), but I think it's up to snuff as it is. The only downside I can think of to listing it in the spring is that mountain trekking will probably still be too snowy. Summer/fall might be better. --Peter ^Talk 04:11, 13 November 2007 (EST)
• Support. Has lots of interesting details and diversions, perfect for an OtBP. I'd like to see it follow MoS a little closer, but with Peter on the job, I'm sure that won't be a problem. Gorilla Jones 08:06, 13 November 2007 (EST)
• Support. I will help fix any problems that I can to ensure that this will become an OtBP. Just let me know what I can do. Cupcakecommander 02:10, 11 December 2007 (EST)

[edit] February

[edit] Chiang Mai (DotM)

Excellent article, and might be a good substitute for Pattaya if that's deemed unacceptable again. Best season is winter (Nov-Feb or so), and might (barely) also squeeze into OtBP if needed. Jpatokal 06:39, 5 December 2006 (EST)

Support - a good article and a good destination, though I don't know which month is best to feature as all their festivals seem to be in the Winter/early Spring. WindHorse 01:22, 1 February 2007 (EST)

Here's the down load on climate: The hot season is from early March to end of May. Average daytime temperature is 30° Celsius (85° Fahrenheit). The rainy season usually begins early June and reaches to the end of October. Most rain will probably fall in September. So, if Guangzhou is featured in March (see discussion under 'Dubai' above), then feasibly Chiang Mai could be slotted into April in its place. While it is not the best month in terms of temperature (though 30° Celsius day time temps are certainly not unbearable), it is dry, which is probably the most important consideration. WindHorse 04:26, 4 February 2007 (EST)

I wouldn't suggest Chiang Mai for April -- it's not quite as broiling as Bangkok, but it's far less pleasant than winter. Jpatokal 08:28, 4 February 2007 (EST)

OK, I take your word for it. I've only ever been there in the Fall. Anyway, we need somewhere to feature in the April slot. Any ideas? I've nominated Shimla for DoM. Don't know whether it up to standard, but if so, April would be a suitable month weather-wise WindHorse 11:09, 4 February 2007 (EST)

SupportFrom what I remember being there, fall is the best time to visit, good weather and not too crowded!Felixboy 14:41, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

As Chiang-Mai cannot feature until November at earliest, I suggest holding the article until February. It is good time weather wise and also the month when the famous Chiang Mai Flower Festival is held. WindHorse 03:11, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Cape Maclear (OtBP)

A small fishing village on Lake Malawi in Southern Malawi that has become a bit of a "traveler's black hole". There are activities to do here, which are described but the pace of life is slow, and beach bumming is apparently the norm. The place is definately off the beaten path, but there are details for hotels etc. Not sure of the best time to visit. -- Tim (writeme!) 08:45, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

• Almost support, but not quite yet. We could always use more Africa articles, and this one is both interesting and very far off the beaten path, which is a good thing. However, it really needs some MoS work. Do that and I'll support it unequivocally. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 19:39, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

I've done a bit of MoS work on it, anything other objections? -- Tim (writeme!) 08:20, 1 September 2007 (EDT)

More could still be done, but yes, this meets my concerns. Support now. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:22, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

• Support. For an OTBP article, it's good enough. Map might be nice though. Jpatokal 06:37, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

I'd pip for this in Feb just for geographical variety -- the other alternative, Sihanoukville, is a bit too close to Chiang Mai for comfort. Jpatokal 05:10, 9 February 2008 (EST)

I'd been just about to put something on the talk page pointing out that we need to choose between these two, but I think you're right. I'll make the appropriate change to the schedule table. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 12:15, 9 February 2008 (EST)

[edit] January

[edit] Dubai (DotM)

Important (if weird) destination, and the article is well turned out with good photos and considerable local color. Could use a map, but that's not a show-stopper. Alternative to Yosemite (which, unlike Dubai, could work equally well later in the year) for May? Or Pattaya for February? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 10:57, 24 November 2006 (EST)

• Oppose, not very loudly. Many listings, esp. in Eat, are deficient and/or not in MoS format. Some of the pics are redundant or violate the privacy policy. And May is already blazing hot... Jpatokal 11:26, 24 November 2006 (EST)
  • You're right about the privacy policy; that one needs to be fixed. Simple enough to do, however. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 12:20, 24 November 2006 (EST)
• Well, without looking at the article, I'd say that it makes much more sense to slot it for winter months, when we usually have a shortage. — Ravikiran 12:17, 24 November 2006 (EST)
• I'd like to see this become DotM as it was a CotW earlier this year, and I like it when they become DotM. I'll attack the MoSless bits and sort that picture out now. That makes this a support once I've done a bit of work on it... but could do with a few extra contribs.... -- Tim 18:33, 24 November 2006 (EST)
  • Right, I've given the unMoS bits a once over... But it needs a cope section... -- Tim 19:12, 24 November 2006 (EST)
• Support: would rather have Dubai than Pattaya, although the restaurant listings here need addresses. - DanielC 08:52, 1 December 2006 (EST)

Support - though maybe this is best as a winter feature when those in the northern hemisphere seek sun and warmth. WindHorse 01:28, 1 February 2007 (EST)

There seem to be some objections to using Berlin in March. Could it be slotted then? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 19:42, 2 February 2007 (EST)

Support featuring Dubai for March instead of Berlin. WindHorse 20:02, 2 February 2007 (EST)

I don't think Dubai or Berlin are in DotM shape yet. I mean, look at stuff like this: "The majority of the people using the bus system are lower-class Indians". The article needs a pretty comprehensive rework which I'll be happy to provide — but only in May, when I'll be paying a visit. Jpatokal 23:15, 2 February 2007 (EST)

Yeah, it's not perfect, but got a better idea? March is getting close, there is a shortage of viable candidates, and I do think this one is in better shape than Berlin. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 23:28, 2 February 2007 (EST)

I take Jpatokal's point regarding this article (incidentally, I have removed the specific offending sentence that was referred to). However, as Bill said, there are no other apparent options. Ideas? WindHorse 07:16, 3 February 2007 (EST)

Why not bump up Guangzhou? The article actually says that finding accommodation during the yearly trade fair in April can be difficult, so March would seem better. Yahoo Weather says average March temps are 22/15°C hi/lo with 9cm of rain, which sounds pretty pleasant in my (tropical) book. Jpatokal 08:09, 3 February 2007 (EST)

Yeah, that's certainly a possibility and, as you say, the weather there in March is pretty good. Another option is to slip Dubai in as the next CoW to see whether a group effort can bring it up to standard before the end of this month. Either way is fine with me. WindHorse 08:46, 3 February 2007 (EST)

Dubai makes a great winter destination, so I'd prefer to keep it for a better time. And I'm really not satisfied with the quality of the article, yet. Jpatokal 08:53, 3 February 2007 (EST)

OK, then unless there is any major dissent, bump up Guangzhou. That leaves the question of April - bump up Yosemite National Park or slip in Chaing Mai. I've not been to Chiang Mai in Spring, but I imagine that it is not a bad time to visit. Thoughts? WindHorse 09:02, 3 February 2007 (EST)

If there was a gap for April, that would be a resonable time for Cambridge - it needs little, if any sorting out which I am happy to do (lived there for 3 years). -- DanielC 14:28, 4 February 2007 (EST)

I think that the Museums and Galleries section for Cambridge needs modifying. If that can be a little more MoSed it would probably be a good candiate for the April slot. WindHorse 21:56, 4 February 2007 (EST)

• So have the issues been resolved at least to the point that we could run Dubai in November 07? It's time to come up with something for that month, according to our rolling schedule. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:41, 7 June 2007 (EDT)

I was kinda hoping to hold it until January 2009, when Mr. Cheney goes back to work at Halliburton in their new headquarters. :) The Eat listings still need addresses (or at least phone numbers to get directions), which would be good to have addressed before featuring it. - Todd VerBeek 10:18, 7 June 2007 (EDT)

With regards to phone numbers and addresses for eat listings, most of the mid range and splurge are on the net so it's not going to be hard to get hold of details. It's just been added to my list of things to do! -- Tim (writeme!) 05:49, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

Added the phone numbers and addresses for as many of the eat listings as possible. There were one or two which I couldn't find. -- Tim (writeme!) 13:54, 1 July 2007 (EDT)

• Oppose. Just glancing at the article, parts of it seems to read like an advertisement. Such as "It is a city of superlatives: for the fastest, biggest, tallest, largest and highest, Dubai is the destination." And then a lot of the See/Do listings feel empty and incomplete. I dunno, I understand there's a lack of articles for winter, but I think we should put this one off for a couple of years, to get the article ready for when the Burj Dubai and all those other crazy developments are near completion. :) PerryPlanet 20:59, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
  • That sentence has a very valid point, although it may not come through very well -- practically everything built in Dubai is intended to be the world's tallest tower, the world's most luxurious hotel, the world's largest ski dome, the world's first underwater hotel, yadda yadda. That said, I don't think Dubai is among our best articles and I'm OK with pushing it back in the queue. Jpatokal 05:09, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
    • Oh no, I agree with you, Dubai is certainly becoming a city of superlatives -- I just think there's gotta be a better way to put it than that. Right now it just sounds like some cheesy ad. PerryPlanet 12:04, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
  • Problem is, the queue for DotM is pretty sparse right now, and we're only a week or so away from needing something for January -- where it is currently scheduled. Are you guys willing to swallow your objections and schedule it? If not, got a better idea? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 19:33, 22 December 2007 (EST)

Looks like we are pretty tied up. While I still have some misgivings with the article, I do take back my previous stance. Support. PerryPlanet 17:16, 26 December 2007 (EST)

[edit] Havelock Island (OtBP)

I am going there for my honeymoon and on return, I am fully determined to make this up to scratch. Any ideas on what it lacks will be appreciated. — Ravikiran 14:25, 5 January 2007 (EST)

Bump. We are leaving on the 26th for the place. — Ravikiran 05:58, 22 January 2007 (EST)

• Support – I just cleaned this up more and added several new pictures, and added a map a couple weeks back as well. Having spent a month there, I'd say this article is very much near-complete... the only thing I can think of adding is a drop-dead gorgeous sunset picture at Radhanagar Beach... no offense to the already decent one we've got by Ravikiran, I've seen some nicer sunsets there, and some knockout pics, just not that meet our license requirements, yet. It would probably be best to feature this in February, March or April, though it could also go in September/October/November if we were desperate to fill a slot. – cacahuate ^talk 01:47, 22 May 2007 (EDT)

• I think it needs some telephone numbers for the sleep & eat places if at all possible, plus some "Drink" places. Some of the "Eat" and the "Internet" need addresses. What does "PCO/ISD's" mean? If thse were fixed I would support it. -- DanielC 16:05, 25 May 2007 (EDT)

Most place on the island don't have telephones, which is why there aren't any listed... and the same for addresses, there's just 2 roads on island and no street addresses, so the only way to list them is by saying which beach they're at... believe it or not, this article is pretty darn complete. It covers almost all of the possible things to do and the main places to stay. The only drinking options are to buy beer at the beer shop near the port (that's already listed) or from a few of the guesthouse restaurants (also mentioned), so there's no way to expand that. PCO/ISD's are the phone booths around India... PCO for local, ISD for international, they're all over India and explained in the main guide, and I just added a little clarifying note on the Havelock page too – cacahuate ^talk 04:08, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

• Support. This would be a good winter destination. Jpatokal 07:07, 10 June 2007 (EDT)
• Support. A clear article with good images. Agree that it would make an excellent winter destination. WindHorse 20:11, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

Just a note, Dec and most of Jan can be not so great weather, so better to feature after that, or just before would be second best – cacahuate ^talk 21:39, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

Remember, though, that a "January" OtBP is displayed for as much of February as January, because of our mid-month OtBP change date. Between that and the logistics issues if anyone actually uses the OtBP to plan a trip there, I suspect January may be a better month to feature this article, with the idea that by the time people actually use the information, it'll be later in the winter and the weather will have improved. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 10:55, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

True. Probably fine then for January, and still great for Feb or March if it needs to be bumped to fit other stuff in. – cacahuate ^talk 13:31, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

• Support, although I'd drop the Island Vinnie's tent photo - too dark. How about February, then? Gorilla Jones 10:10, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] 2007

[edit] December

[edit] Angkor Archaeological Park (DotM)

A good guide article. It's dormitory town, Siem Reap is a guide article too. A few of the temples need fleshing out, which I could do. Article says November to February is the peak season. -- DanielC 14:50, 4 February 2007 (EST)

Support - good, clear and comprehensive guide of a popular tourist destination. WindHorse 21:57, 4 February 2007 (EST)

Comment - At the moment I'd actually support Siem Reap, which just needs to have its map updated, over Angkor, which still has some missing bits. And yes, winter is the best time. Jpatokal 07:07, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

How about December for this? Nothing says Christmas like the lads at Bayon. Gorilla Jones 23:16, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

• Support, although it could do with a bit more "Eat" content. No need for similar upgrades on "Sleep" since Siem Reap is in good shape. I'm taking the liberty of scheduling this for December; Jani, I understand your preference for Siem Reap as the DotM, but the fact that Angkor is so much better known leads me to prefer featuring it, with copious references to the excellent Siem Reap page. (Hm -- have we ever done a "double feature" for DotM? Could we?) -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:55, 20 June 2007 (EDT)
  • There is no more Eat content because there's just one restaurant worthy of the name, the rest are just fly-by-night bamboo shacks sprinkled in among the souvenir stalls. It might make sense to reformat the article using the National Park template? Also, I think Siem Reap stands on its own and could potentially be featured as OtbP/DoTM someday. Jpatokal 04:49, 1 July 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Petra (OtBP)

One of those off-the-beaten-path places that the well-rounded traveler just must see. The article gives an excellent sense of what it's like, and as for the shortage of restaurant listings, you can't list what doesn't exist. Would this work for boreal winter? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:08, 27 October 2007 (EDT)

• Support, although it needs a few MoS tweaks. And yes, winter is the best time to go. Jpatokal 00:08, 28 October 2007 (EDT)
• Support. Gorilla Jones 20:37, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

[edit] November

[edit] Hiroshima (DotM)

There's more to the city, and the article, than just nuclear holocaust. As usual in Japan, this would be best in spring (Apr-May) or fall (Sep-Nov). Need a better intro pic tho... Jpatokal 22:20, 1 February 2007 (EST)

Support - and agree that the Fall is probably the best time to feature as the weather in Japan at that time of year is clear and fresh - definitely my personal favorite time to hang out in Japan. WindHorse 22:59, 1 February 2007 (EST)

Mid-to-late September usually sees a typhoon or two in Hiroshima. October or November would be fine, though. Gorilla Jones 09:07, 2 February 2007 (EST)

Comprehensive article. Again, not sure best time, but August would be the anniversary month. -- DanielC 17:37, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Since this was just accidentally re-nominated for OtBP, I'd have to argue for DotM: everybody on the planet knows the name, and it's pretty big on the Japan tourist trail. Jpatokal 18:37, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Again, I would discourage using Hiroshima in September. On fine days, the weather is okay, still too hot at the beginning of the month, fine by the end of the month. The key issue, though, is typhoons. Some years, there's only one typhoon in September, and it just means you can't go out for a day or two...but some years, there are more, and they do a lot worse. (Itsukushima in Miyajima was destroyed by a September 2004 typhoon.) Gorilla Jones 10:34, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

OK - got it, but I am wondering how to separate a consecutive run on US destinations. Anyway, based your input, I'll remove Hiroshima for the September nomination. Thanks for the feedback. WindHorse 10:44, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

Can we come to a consensus on whether the typhoons create too much of a problem in September? 'Twould really be nice to break up the US DotMs, and October really is better for Albuquerque, for a number of reasons. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 23:59, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

My personal experience of typhoons is that they are not that disruptive in a major city and are usually gone within half a day (though during the period that they make landfall, travelers obviously would be confined to indoors). However, it has been pointed out that Hiroshima is also pretty hot at the beginning of September, so it seems that October is still the best option for this destination. It would be preferable to have a non-US destination separating the consecutive run of two, but it is only two and the complimentary OtBP for that period are from totally different parts of the world. So, personally, I don't think it is a major issue, though maybe we should not nominate any more destinations from the US until the early Spring. WindHorse 00:21, 21 June 2007 (EDT)

I'm still feeling as though it would be better, all else equal, to flipflop this and Albuquerque in the queue. How far in advance is it possible to guess what the typhoon season is going to be like? Could this exchange be made at the last minute if the season looks to be moderate? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 10:07, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

I'll ask some contacts in the city. I know the whole city shut down for a typhoon last week - businesses closed, everyone went home early, etc (and you know how much it takes for Japanese businesses to send their employees home early), which didn't happen at all last year, but I'm not sure if that's necessarily connected to how things will be in September. Gorilla Jones 10:29, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

Since Chiang Mai has been moved, how about Hiroshima for November? The weather is cool but pleasant, and the fall colors are still there for most of the month. Then we can move Albuquerque to October. That would leave us without a candidate for September, but plenty of places are nice right then, so it shouldn't be hard to find one. Gorilla Jones 20:13, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

OK, Hiroshima for November, Albuquerque for October, and the recently proposed Victoria (British Columbia) for September, then? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 12:45, 9 August 2007 (EDT)

I have to say I'm not too impressed with the current pic. I like my own enough to have a framed copy on the wall, but it's not very representative of the city. There are quite a few options on Flickr, but nothing really striking...? Although we could always go with an A-Bomb Dome shot like this. Jpatokal 22:32, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

Yes, that last one is a far better shot of the Dome. Wanna see if you can get a release? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 23:18, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

It's already CC by 2.0, which is compatible. But using the Dome for Hiroshima is kinda like the Eiffel Tower for Paris... Jpatokal 04:47, 27 October 2007 (EDT)

Which, of course, is precisely what was done when Paris was DotM. Furthermore, I suspect that far more people had an idea of what the Eiffel Tower looks like before putting it on the cover than will have a comparable idea of the Dome. But your call. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 10:38, 27 October 2007 (EDT)

Since the thesis in the introduction of the article is that there's more to the city than the atomic bomb - and, as it says in Understand, some visitors are going to expect smoldering ruins when they step off the train - I think it would run counter to the text to have a dome-alone picture. I like my photo because it places the dome within the context of the city. One of the other Peace Park icons would do well - I don't have a good photo of the mother-shielding-child statue, but that's a good one. I have plenty from around the city that are non-bomb related of course... Gorilla Jones 14:23, 27 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Rietvlei Nature Reserve (OtBP)

We can keep this one in reserve in case we ever run short of Off the Beaten Path destinations. Rietvlei is a small reserve with a low number of visitors, facilities are basic, but adequate and well maintained. Will appeal to anyone that feels it is totally wrong to be stuck in a city when visiting "wild" Africa. Given the mild Highveld climate it does not really matter when one visits, but early spring (starting September) probably gives the best balance between number of bird species present and ease of game viewing due to still short winter grass. -- NJR_ZA 09:46, 4 February 2007 (EST)

Looks good, but is a bit bare in some places - why must you bring in your own food etc? If there's no restaurant etc say so... Plus which bit of the reserve is good for seeing a particular animal? Maybe a bit more in the history section as well? I like reading that kind of stuff (although I know we don't want to become wikipedia!) Could do with a few more details in the sleep and get out! -- Tim 10:05, 4 February 2007 (EST)

Thanks for the feedback again, I'll work on those. History in many areas of South Africa is however a bit of a problem; there just is not a lot to go around. The reserves history can be summed up as: someone tried a bit of farming around 1910, nothing much happened for a while, a dam was build in the 1930s, nothing much happened for a while, the area was proclaimed a reserve in 1948, nothing much happened for a while, some tar roads were put down in the 1980s, nothing much happened for a while, you can visit there today and enjoy the fact that nothing much happened to spoil the natural beauty of the area. -- NJR_ZA 12:38, 4 February 2007 (EST)

haha i love that! put it in the article!i should have added that once you've made those changes i mentioned, and maybe generally added a bit more depth, i'll support-- Tim 13:01, 4 February 2007 (EST)

I'm wondering if this article could be moved into the Nov-Dec slot. If so, then I would like to shift Guinsa to Sep-Oct and Namche Bazaar into the Oct-Nov slot. The tourist season in Namche is short, so if it cannot be be destination of the month in the Fall, then it will need to wait until April. Guinsa is also suitable to display in early Fall as it is the best time to view the Fall leaf colors. Thoughts? WindHorse 11:57, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

I was thinking the same thing, and have made the change; let's see what attention it attracts. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 15:32, 15 June 2007 (EDT)

Nov-Dec will be good for this one. Many travelers from the Northern Hemisphere visit South Africa during our summer. Some of the better known destinations can get rather busy during that time and offering an alternative like this will be a good idea. --NJR_ZA 14:05, 16 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] October

[edit] Albuquerque (DotM)

User:PerryPlanet has done a fantastic job with this. Suggested for September or October, as the Albuquerque International Balloon Fiesta draws hundreds of thousands of visitors (yes, literally "hundreds of thousands") in early October; use in September if the emphasis is on helping them find lodging (although it'll be tight by then), in October if the goal is to give visitors things to do post-arrival other than get up at 6 a.m. and watch the balloons. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 15:30, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

Support - great article. -- Tim 11:24, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

Support - You flatter me, Bill. :P Another reason to put it in September would be because that's when the State Fair happens, and that's the biggest event in ABQ (behind the Balloon Fiesta, of course). I'll have to write up something on the state fair soon... PerryPlanet 15:47, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Support - good article, although it could do with more specific "Buy" listings. I am concerned that if we put it in for October, then that would mean 3 USA DOTMs in a row. -- DanielC 17:04, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Support - September seems decent, but it is really known for the Balloon Fiesta, it seems much more approriate to do it in October with a nice picture of balloons over the city for picture. Ralthor 23:14, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

To accommodate this (I agree with you), I've taken the liberty of inserting Victoria (British Columbia) into the September slot, and slipped this and Hiroshima a month each. Go criticize me. :-) -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:15, 9 August 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Namche Bazaar (OTBP)

Can't get much more OTBP than this little Sherpa village located a six day walk from the nearest road and in the shadow of Mount Everest. Needs a photograph, but locating one shouldn't be too difficult. Only April, October or November are suitable months to feature. Other times are out of season, either because its too cold or the peaks are lost in mist. WindHorse 09:09, 5 February 2007 (EST)

Support A good article given that it's probably a fairly rudimentary place. It must have a photograph though. -- DanielC 17:48, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

It's a well-written article. I've asked a couple of the people who have photos on Wikipedia if they'd consider re-licensing them. Gorilla Jones 14:05, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

W00t! We've got a photo. Gorilla Jones 18:18, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

• Support, but I'd rather see this in October (remember that the November OtBP doesn't get posted until November 15), before the trekking season ends, if Guinsa could be pushed back to November. Otherwise reserve it for the 2008 season -- not much point in running the article at a time when nobody will benefit from it. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 22:05, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

Agree that Mid-Oct - Mid-Nov would be the ideal slot for Namche as that is peak season. Mid-Nov is getting a little late. However, I note that Guinsa is particularly beautiful in the Fall because of the tree colors, so October might be the best time to show case that article also... Wonder whether Rietvlei Nature Reserve could be moved into the Nov slot and Guinsa and Namche moved forward. The intro for Rietvlei states that it is a good all-year destination, though September is better because of an increase in animal numbers.... WindHorse 00:15, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] September

[edit] Victoria (British Columbia) (DotM)

Every bit as gorgeous as its reputation, and just far enough from Vancouver to count as a separate destination. The article has textbook MoS formatting, excellent (if sparse) photography and two useful maps; some of the prose could use some tidying, but there's time, and I wouldn't consider it a show-stopper just as it is. If Butchart Gardens still looks good in September, this might fill in the missing month we're currently facing. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 16:13, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

• Support. Good find for September. Gorilla Jones 16:32, 3 August 2007 (EDT)
• Drink needs a little MoSing, but otherwise support - but isn't Albuquerque slated for September? WindHorse 23:58, 5 August 2007 (EDT)
  • There has been discussion of slipping both Albuquerque and Hiroshima a month -- there's a vacancy in November, Albuquerque would be better in October because of the Balloon Fiesta, and a slip would break up the DotMs in the USA. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 08:41, 6 August 2007 (EDT)
• It's a great article in all respects except one: both pictures are low-res, overexposed and blurry. Can somebody find a better one to showcase? Jpatokal 13:26, 26 August 2007 (EDT)
  • The Butchart Gardens photo exists in better form on Wikimedia Commons (here). However, it's gigantic there -- something like 2 megabytes -- and even the lower-res version that I put on this page is a pretty big file. If you're more skilled with PhotoShop than I, go ahead and see if an intermediate-resolution version can be created. Otherwise I say go with it; Butchart Gardens is probably the "prettiest" site in Victoria, and the other shots on Commons don't appear to have compatible licensing, unless I'm missing something. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 19:33, 26 August 2007 (EDT)
    • 2 MB isn't gigantic, in fact it's barely enough for printing, and since creating thumbnails is a one-time job it doesn't really matter how big the original is. (I regularly upload ~3 MB 3008x2000 pics.) A quick poke at Flickr turns up hundreds of other pics: I like this one, but I'm not sure how representative it is. Jpatokal 23:20, 26 August 2007 (EDT)
      • That one's plenty representative and would be just fine, if the CC-SA 2.0 can be addressed. If you feel strongly enough about upgrading the photo to take that on, go for it; I certainly won't object to the superior photo. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 00:28, 27 August 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Guinsa (OTBP)

So far off the beaten track that I'm positive the article I wrote today is far and away the most complete guide in English available online or offline — which is a shame, because this place is stunning. And hey, how many guides do we have with useful snippets of info like "All things are both absolutely unreal and provisionally real at once"? Open all year around, but the area is best known for its fall colors. Jpatokal 08:05, 2 July 2006 (EDT)

• I have several comments/questions before I'll vote in favor.

1. If someone wanted tea where would they go?
2. Is hiking the only thing that people can do? What about attending religious services or equivalent?
3. What about contacting the outside world? Are there telephones or can someone use the internet there?
4. Lastly, how did you hear about the place? -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 08:23, 2 July 2006 (EDT)

• Good questions, I'll add in the following: Tea and coffee are available in vending machines throughout the site, as is fresh water. There are religious services, field hoeing, kimchi preparation etc aplenty, but they're all in Korean which kinda limits the accessibility. There were public telephones at the post office (I remember this because we almost used them). And I heard about the place because LP deigns to grant it one paragraph on the last page (!) of the Korea guide, and then got intrigued when I googled it and a) saw this guy's photos and b) that there was practically no info available on it. Jpatokal 08:40, 2 July 2006 (EDT)

• Support. Jpatokal, I was in a book store today and saw a LP Korea guide book. I went to the last page of the S. Korea section and have to admit you are correct on your article probably being the most informative guide available. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 16:21, 3 July 2006 (EDT)

• Support, with distinct reservations. Content is excellent as regards attractions, but something useful and practical is needed for the "Sleep" section. If you can't sleep there, (1) is it really a destination and (2) where can you sleep? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:59, 28 October 2006 (EDT)
  • The article currently points to Danyang, which has a few sleep listings. Jpatokal 13:06, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

I don't mind the lack of accommodations inside the town because Jani does point us to the another destination that does have accommodation. Jani did such a great job on this article it would be foolish not to showcase it in some manner. This article proves that the paper guide books will have nothing on us. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 13:18, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

[edit] August

[edit] Zion National Park (DotM)

The scenery here is simply breathtaking, and it's a favorite park for many. Best times to go are in spring and fall, when the temperatures are more moderate. PerryPlanet 14:51, 29 December 2006 (EST)

• Support, but: Might this be better as OtBP? National park or not, few people know where it is, and one must go to some lengths to get there. There's been some really tremendous work on this article lately, however, and it would be reasonable to feature it somewhere, somehow. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 16:06, 31 December 2006 (EST)

I don't think so. Zion is Utah's most popular National Park, it gets millions of visitors a year. It's well-known even outside of the Southwest. "Off the beaten path" doesn't describe Zion at all. PerryPlanet 18:38, 31 December 2006 (EST)

• Support for OTBP. As this is a world travel guide and it's not really known of outside the USA, I'd call it OTBP. Very good article though. -- DanielC 16:24, 2 February 2007 (EST)
• Support for DotM. I don't think "not world famous" is sufficient reason to declare something OtBP. After all, Guangzhou, Dubai, Chiang Mai, Shimla, and Angkor Archaeological Park aren't exactly household names inside the USA. And although it isn't as famous as Yellowstone or Yosemite or the Everglades, Zion made MSN Encarta's "15 Most Popular National Parks" article (at #15). Over 2.5 million visitors every year Beat a pretty good Path. :) - Todd VerBeek 15:39, 4 February 2007 (EST)

Yes, with those visitor numbers I don't think it is really OTBP. However I am not sure that I agree with some of TVerBeek's examples above. See discussion at Wikitravel_talk:Destination_of_the_Month_candidates#Criteria_for_OTBP_v_DOTM. -- DanielC 08:32, 7 February 2007 (EST)

• Support. 2.5 million visitors per year would definitely disqualify it for OFTBP. WindHorse 00:22, 6 February 2007 (EST)
• As Yosemite is featuring in the Spring, I'm wondering whether this should be moved to the Fall. It is certainly a Fall-like destination with the tree colors etc. Will enter Shimla as an alternative for June as it is traditionally a summer escape for those living in the sweltering plains, which are at their hottest in May/June. Hiroshima is also a possibility for May, though Japan is usually at its best in the Fall also. WindHorse 22:08, 7 February 2007 (EST)
  • Agree with Shimla instead of Zion for June. I wouldn't recommend Hiroshima though, as it's the rainy season in Japan then. Jpatokal 23:55, 7 February 2007 (EST)

[edit] Tampere (OtBP)

It's got the Lenin Museum, a library full of Moomins, sausages made from pig blood, 20,000 hard-drinking students and a fairly decent article. What more do you need? Definitely a summer (June-August) destination, and while Finland's 2nd largest city this is still pretty obscure by world standards, so I'd go for OtBP over DotM. Jpatokal 22:03, 1 February 2007 (EST)

• Support. A really good article. -- DanielC 08:07, 2 February 2007 (EST)
• Support. Good article, and as a connoisseur of Lenin statues, I feel qualified to say that's an excellent photo. Gorilla Jones 14:08, 13 June 2007 (EDT)
• Problem -- Tampere has no Drink section! I moved one brewery-pub into it from Eat, but some more places are needed. I think I need to drop a line to my locally resident party-animal cousin... Jpatokal 22:13, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

[edit] July

[edit] Swansea (DotM)

Possibly the most diverse "Do" section I've ever seen in an article for a city this size. Well suited to the latter part of (boreal) summer. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 13:20, 20 January 2007 (EST)

• Wow there is a lot there! It's gonna need a bit of a MoS touch up and a bit more info on some of the listings before I support it though. -- Tim 18:50, 20 January 2007 (EST)

• Support - and July seems the best month to feature as there is an international rock and indie festival being held there around the middle of that month. WindHorse 01:25, 1 February 2007 (EST)

• Support, although I think it's more OTBP and the "eat" listings could do with more description. -- DanielC 08:15, 2 February 2007 (EST)
• According the UK government stats, the city gets between 3-4 million tourists (not visitors, but tourists) per annum. In my book, that definitely qualifies it for DotM. WindHorse 00:22, 6 February 2007 (EST)

You are right - I forgot about all the tourists staying for the Gower Penisular. -- DanielC 08:17, 7 February 2007 (EST)

• Given that it's the next DOTM, this article desperately needs a better picture -- the current washed-out scan of a cheap print, complete with visible dent, is terri-biba-ble. Jpatokal 02:11, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

Agree - just had a quick search through Flickr/wikipedia/wikimedia commons and there's nothing that jumps out as being a good leading picture with the appropriate license. I'm not really sure of any other good image sites that are likely to have the right license. I'll check Zooomr when that comes online again sometime today (hopefully.....) Is it worth while having a rough deadline in about two weeks for when we want to have a new image by, so that if we can't get one we can start to think about a possible replacement for DotM - we can't really have an article without a good descriptive picture as DotM... -- Tim (writeme!) 07:57, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

I found a CC-BY image on Flickr (taken about 10 days ago!) that I like, which I've added. (And I've done a little Photoshop clean-up and adjustment work on the previous lead image to make it more presentable as a supporting image.) - Todd VerBeek 08:17, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

Sorry guys for the bad quality of the original image. Usually, I concentrate on B&W, but on the day I was in Swansea many years ago there was a rare moment of clear weather (it had rained the whole month I was traveling in the UK), and so I borrowed a cheap camera to take two souvenir shots - to remind me of both the UK and the sole clear day! That was on of the images, and to make it worse, it somehow got bashed in the interim years. Anyway, glad Todd saved the day, and I agree that is a nice image - lots of interesting, sharp contrasts of shape and a wide variety of color - a good catch. WindHorse 08:34, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Sado Island (OTBP)

Possibly a July alternative to Windsor? Sounds interesting, and though I know nothing about it, the article looks well written and if I was in the area I'd be up for going there and would use our article to do it. Says it's a great summer destination. – cacahuate ^talk 03:49, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

Support and withdraw Thimphu (which like Jakar isn't really up to scratch yet - I'll work on them both). Sado also needs some editing, but I think it can make the grade, and it is certainly a more interesting destination than Windsor (appears to be). I have not been to Sado itself, but have visited Niigata prefecture, which is just across from Sado on the mainland, and can vouch that late summer early fall are good seasons. The winters are bitingly cold there and early summer is characterized by cloud and rain. WindHorse 04:01, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

Support. However, I'd pip for August over July, because that's when Sado's biggest event, Earth Celebration, is held. Although you could argue that it needs to be showcased in July so people can still get tickets...! Jpatokal 04:21, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

Support very much, because (a) I spent some countless time on that article (b) it makes for a great summer destination, and (c) I love the place. But the main event is indeed the Earth Celebration, at the beginning of August. I will let you decide whether to use it for July or August Tensaibuta 04:28, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

If the Earth celebration is in early August, then the July slot will fit perfectly as the OtBP for that month will run from mid-July to mid-August. In this way, it will give people sufficient advance notice for buying tickets and also supply info for people on Sado attending the festival. WindHorse 04:51, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

Support. Great article! Gorilla Jones 23:20, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

• I'd say August, rather than July since Windsor (Ontario) will play host to the huge Fourth of July/Canada Day celebration. Basically, it's a festival to celebrate international cooperation, America's Independence (July 4th) and Canada Day (July 1). Kind of sucks that we didn't show it for this month... -- Sapphire • (Talk) • 17:10, 18 June 2007 (EDT)

Sado was offered as an alternative to Windsor (Ontario) (see comments above under Windsor) due to the perception that the city lacked any significant attractions. There was no objection to Tampere, the candidate for August. So, it is either July or nothing. Incidentally, Windsor would not feature until July 15 (remember OtBT articles run from the 15th of ever month), so it would feature too late for these festivals anyway...WindHorse 03:26, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

Oh yeah, I forgot about staggering OtBP. Oh well, doesn't really matter which is spotlighted. -- Sapphire • (Talk) • 03:31, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

Ok, I slotted it in for July and attempted a blurb on "next change"... improve as needed :) – cacahuate ^talk 01:44, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

Agree that this is a better July OtBP than Windsor. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:44, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, support. (I never bought the argument that one of the world's busiest border crossings was off the beaten path.) Though I do think we ought to declare a moratorium on Japanese OTBP places for a while after this; this will make 1/4 of the past year's. - Todd VerBeek 23:07, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

I do not know how things work... is it supposed to switch automatically ? or does an admin do it ? Tensaibuta 09:51, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

Oh, ok, it supposed to switch on the 15th... Tensaibuta 09:53, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

[edit] June

[edit] Shimla (DotM)

Needs some polishing, but all the ingredients are there, and it would be a first for a city on the sub continent. Weather is best in the Fall. WindHorse 08:43, 4 February 2007 (EST)

Support. I came here to nominate and I find that it is already here. — Ravikiran 07:42, 5 February 2007 (EST)

Support. I agree with WindHorse.—The preceding comment was added by Upamanyuwikitravel (talk • contribs) .

• Added as an alternative to Zion National Park for June as the city was traditionally a place to seek respite from the oppressive summers on the Plains. Furthemore, Zion would make a good Fall destination due to the abundance of deciduous trees there. WindHorse 02:19, 8 February 2007 (EST)
• Support. However: Two of the images on this article violate Wikitravel:Privacy rights and will have to be removed, which leaves it a bit sparse on photos. - Todd VerBeek 15:08, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Dalian (OtBP)

It's a Star and the maps alone are extraordinary, so it definitely should be showcased, and while a large city, it's pretty much off the Western tourist trail, so I'll pip over OtBP. Article says "best visited between June and October". Jpatokal 01:09, 17 December 2006 (EST)

• Support; looks like a good summer OtBP. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 01:17, 17 December 2006 (EST)
• Support; maybe we should t