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Wikitravel:Destination of the Month candidates

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Here we determine which articles are featured on the Main Page as Destination of the Month (DOTM) and Off the Beaten Path (OTBP).

[edit] Nominate

You can nominate an article you would like to see featured; just say a few words about why, and select a good time to go. Well-known and/or popular destinations should be nominated as Destination of the Month, while more obscure destinations should be nominated for Off the Beaten Path. Any destination, region, itinerary or event that passes the "What is an article?" test is eligible for DotM/OtBP.

The basic format of a nomination is as follows: 

===[[Destination]]===
Great article and it's just luvvly-jubbly in the springtime. ~~~~

However, before nominating, please check that the article follows these basic guidelines:

  • The nominated article should have an article status of guide or star. This includes having at least one good picture, and listings/headers/etc. that match our manual of style.
  • The nominated article should be featured at a good time to visit.
  • The nominated article must not have been featured previously.
  • If the article has been nominated previously but failed, any objections should be addressed before nominating it again.
    • See Slush pile to check.
    • If you think a once-slushed destination is now ready to go, list it as new, but with a pointer to the slush pile entry.

[edit] Select

You can also comment on any previous nomination based on timeliness and adherence to the criteria above, just add a bullet point (*) and your signed opinion. 

===[[Destination]]===
Great article and it's just luvvly-jubbly in the springtime. TravelNut 25:25, 31 Feb 2525 (EDT)
* Looks nice, but shouldn't the Do section contain more than just quilting contests? ~~~~

If an article gets several comments in favor and none against for a week or so, it's eligible to be placed in an appropriate time-slot in the queue.

Please note that the following are not considered valid reasons to oppose a nomination:

  • "I don't like it." All objections have to be based on the guidelines above: poor formatting, missing information, etc. Personal opinions, dislikes, etc do not count.
  • "Wrong time of year." Articles are supported or opposed based on their content. Timing can be worked out later.
  • "Wrong type of place." Articles are supported or opposed based on their content. Whether it's DoTM or OtBP can be worked out later.

Discussions for previously selected destinations are in the Archive. Discussions for nominations that didn't make the grade are in the Slush pile.

[edit] Upcoming DOTM / OTBP

[edit] Schedule

The following queue should contain about six months' worth of upcoming destinations. Note that new DotMs are rotated in on the 1st of each month, while OtBPs are changed on the 15th.

Month DOTM OTBP
November 2009 Marrakech Mae Salong?
December 2009 Copenhagen Big Bend National Park
January 2010 Hyderabad? Niamey
February 2010 Vientiane?
March 2010 Bali Tobacco Caye?
April 2010 Washington, D.C. Hilversum?

These are not cast in stone, and the order can be changed if, for example, an excellent guide for a timely event is found. Whenever a guide becomes a current feature, it should be removed from the list, the discussion archived, and a new month added to the end of the queue. Alternatives are OK; the whole point is to enable some discussion as needed.

[edit] Next change

The section below provides an opportunity to see what the DOTM and OTBP will look like on the Main Page. Please remember that main page real-estate is a valuable commodity, so keep the description brief and the photo small.

Copenhagen is the capital of Denmark, and the Christmas in candle-happy city is a good place to go gift shopping in the pretty historic center. It's also host of the UN conference on Climate change this month. (more...)

Mae Salong is a village in Chiang Rai, northern Thailand. Settled by Kuomintang warlords fleeing Communist China, Mae Salong's hills were once a key link in the opium-producing Golden Triangle, but today the main industries are oolong tea and tourism. (more...)

[edit] Nominations for Destination of the Month

[edit] Frankfurt

One of the major destinations in Germany, with a very well written article. It lacks a map, and needs an external links attack, but otherwise looks very much up to DotM standards, I think. Don't know when would be best to feature. --Peter Talk 01:23, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

  • Support. This was actually slushed once way back, but the article has improved by leaps and bounds since then. Definitely a late spring/summer destination though. Jpatokal 02:10, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
  • I'd Support it for February 2009 or around there. Keep smiling, ee talk 00:02, 11 November 2008 (EST).
    • February is still deep winter in Germany at that time. Early fall is also an option though, mid-October was surprisingly pleasant... Jpatokal 02:18, 11 November 2008 (EST)
  • Don't support. Overall a good article, but almost half of the Eat listings don't have descriptions, and almost none of the clubs or hotels have addresses. Gorilla Jones 19:50, 8 December 2008 (EST)
  • Support It's a good article and it would be best in summer s loads of travellers arrive in September for trde fairs.jan 16:09, 24 January 2009 (EST)
  • Don't Support The "Museums" and "Other Museums" are redundant and shows poor organization. The "Skyline" is an odd sub-heading, as well. Not properly formatted. The page doesn't make a very enjoyable read/browse. ChubbyWimbus 02:33, 30 June 2009 (EDT)
  • I'm with Chubby. It is basically a fine article, but not properly organised or formatted so it still needs work. Could it be a Wikitravel:Collaboration of the month? Pashley 00:45, 3 September 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Yellowstone National Park

A UNESCO World Heratige site, the first national park in the world, and a very popular "nature" destination here in the US. It is best in the summer, which looks full right now, but wouldn't be terribly bad in the fall. AHeneen 00:47, 2 March 2009 (EST)

The Tower Roosevelt section needs some information/description, along with the Natural Bridge, but the page looks good to me! There is always that looming issue of too many American destinations, but I have mixed feelings about that. Of course, ideally, the featured destinations would be highly diverse, leaving no nation or area of the world out however, I also feel that if the Wikitravel community chooses to make better pages for countries like the U.S., Japan, and strangely Cambodia has been featured a few times, there is not much that can be done (aside from those who want to see new places featured actually working to get them up to standards). I'd support Yellowstone. ChubbyWimbus 05:09, 3 March 2009 (EST)
  • Support, with reservations. The article is quite good; I use it, despite being something of a "regular" at Yellowstone. However, as with most US national parks, I'm not convinced that a Yellowstone article shows Wikitravel to best advantage (or vice versa, which is maybe less important). There are two problems. First, there's a great deal of good stuff on line on Yellowstone already, much of it in more coherent form than is true for other DotMs. Second, the "attractions" of the park are not well presented in the limited format that we've imposed on ourselves here. Yes, the article "can" be used in DotM, in that it meets all of the requirements for a DotM article. That doesn't necessarily mean that it should be. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:50, 3 March 2009 (EST)

[edit] Antigua Guatemala

Anne has put a bunch of work into this guide lately, and I think it looks pretty great. It's a world heritage site and Guatemala's top city destination, so I think it would be fine dotm material.

  • Support. --Peter Talk 19:55, 30 March 2009 (EDT)
Wow! This looks good! Is there a more appropriate place to put the "laundry" information aside from the Buy section? It really doesn't seem to belong there. 58.191.155.98 04:51, 1 April 2009 (EDT)
It's normally a "Cope" topic, and I see that someone has moved it there. Support. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 14:19, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Support And again, nice to see dotm/otbp ready guides, outside our "core" areas' of North America and Asia. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 08:45, 1 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Almost support. It is looking pretty good and has a ton of listings, but the see section is very weak, and should be one of the strongest. The article could also use a serious copyedit and a small beating with the MoS stick – cacahuate talk 17:52, 25 May 2009 (EDT)
Update: needs even more cleanup after today's verbose additions – cacahuate talk 21:27, 31 May 2009 (EDT)
Yeah, a lot of work has been put into the article post-nomination, which has added good content, but has also mangled the English and some of the structural style. It shouldn't take that much work to get this back up to a DotM level of polish, but that work should be done before we feature it. --Peter Talk 01:02, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Vientiane

The capital of Laos, an increasingly popular tourist destination (no longer OtBP) and a very comprehensive article that almost suffers from too much information. Best in the winter season (Nov-Mar or thereabouts). Jpatokal 08:40, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

Support but it needs in some sections (Get around, Drink) a traveller who was their as some dates (e.g. 2007 for deadline of bars) are totally outdated... jan 05:17, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
Support. Could use a manual of style wash, but it has great imagery and makes a strong case for visiting. Gorilla Jones
Support Although I agree that the page would be better if it were formatted properly and if the sites were organized according to locale, I think it's a nice page. ChubbyWimbus 20:41, 29 June 2009 (EDT)
  • Support Reluctantly. This is when I get mixed feelings about Wikitravel. Vientianne is one of my favourite places and the page well captures my feelings about it. But do I really want it full of Wikitravel readers next time I go there?Shep 14:30, 28 August 2009 (EDT)
Why not? We're a charming bunch. Most of us, anyway. Gorilla Jones 17:21, 28 August 2009 (EDT)
Well, you can have too much of a good thing!Shep 09:07, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
We promise not to invite the spambots. - Dguillaime 21:33, 28 August 2009 (EDT)
I don't think Wikitravellers are going to come in such droves that it will take away from the charm of the city. I guess you could try to think of it in other terms: Visitors help the local/nation's economy (don't know much about Laotian economics, but money is usually a good thing), you can showcase a city that you hold dear to you so that others can share that same type of experience, it can help fight against stereotypes that Laos is a war-torn Hmong refugee nation, etc. ChubbyWimbus 13:02, 29 August 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Kanazawa

We aren't exactly running short on Japan DOTMs, but here's one more for sometime in 2010. Best in spring or fall. Jpatokal 10:08, 18 July 2009 (EDT)

Support. Good descriptions in this one. Gorilla Jones 11:21, 18 July 2009 (EDT)
It's a very pretty article, but there are few addresses listed—is this a Japan-specific thing? --Peter Talk 15:22, 18 July 2009 (EDT)
It wouldn't hurt to add them, but in general directions are much more useful for finding places in Japan. Jpatokal 01:27, 20 July 2009 (EDT)
Most other Japan pages have addresses. The listings on the Kanazawa page only mimic Wikitravel's formatting, but they do not actual use it. I suspect that's why the addresses are left out. There is a lot of time, though, to format the page properly before this is featured. ChubbyWimbus 17:27, 21 July 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Copenhagen

I know there are some gaps in the coverage, and the main article sort of needs a makeover, but seeing Vientiane has been smacked up for December, I thought I'd give a shout and propose Copenhagen for that month instead. In itself Copenhagen is actually a good place to visit during Christmas, with loads going on, even though the weather can be tricky.

And this year, the worlds eyes are going to be tuned towards my little city, with all the worlds leaders gathered here, for the renegotiation of the Kyoto treaty - basically going to be the Copenhagen Treaty I suppose[1]. More than 10.000 NGO's, as well as swarms of journalists and other people who are likely to use wikitravel as a medium are coming to town, So I'd really like to see wonderful Copenhagen smacked up on our front page during that month. And don't worry, even though progress is rather slow, I'm going to fill in the blanks, don't want my little jewel in the making looking like that, when the world is watching :)

--Stefan (sertmann) Talk 21:02, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

It's too bad this one didn't have a good collaboration of the month however, I think it is nearly ready. The uneven coverage should be addressed before it is featured. From what I could see, Vestegnen needs descriptions under Drink and Sleep sections and the "district under construction" label has to go. Fredriksberg needs information in the "contact" section, since it's currently empty, and the hotel listings should be formatted properly with more descriptions. As something that I think should be addressed but is not so crucial to the DotM, the northern suburbs' shops should have descriptions and the "Paddling Down the Mollea River" box is too long. This would be a nice feature to break up the Southeast Asian destinations. ChubbyWimbus 22:22, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
  • I'd support once it's at guide status, although if the consensus is that the main article isn't ready, we could feature the recently-starred Copenhagen/Amager district instead. Gorilla Jones 23:24, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. The only thing preventing Copenhagen from having guide status is that noone has changed the usable tag—all districts are usable already. It would be proper to fill out the history and literature sections of the main article first, but that's a very minor and easy thing to change. I've noticed that a DotM/OtBP main page feature sends google results for that article through the roof. Accordingly, with Copenhagen big in the news, we could get a lot of new traffic by featuring it in December. Moreover, Christmas in candle-happy Copenhagen would make for a lovely visit. And it's a great collection of articles for a great travel destination, making it a top-notch DotM nomination IMO. --Peter Talk 15:17, 1 August 2009 (EDT)
OK, so now is it good enough for y'all?
NEVER! Just kidding, Support! All concerns were addressed. The districts are now more evenly covered. A great article! I'm just going to go ahead a bump Vientiane, since there is no discussion about why it is best for December, and this one clearly has a reason for the season. ChubbyWimbus 16:57, 18 September 2009 (EDT)
It had better, that was 15 kilobyte of raw text added there! :) --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 19:59, 18 September 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Hyderabad

Historic city, with lots of attractions. There are still some formatting and content issues to be worked out, but I want this to be in contention for January or February 2010, because in March it will start getting hot. — Ravikiran 10:05, 12 September 2009 (EDT)

Not yet I'd love to see another featured destination from India, and there is time to get this up to standard. You mentioned formatting, and that definitely needs to be addressed in some of the sections. The "Buy", "Do", and "Learn" need more descriptions. If "Work" is to be a part of the city's article, then it definitely needs content. I also think the "See" section would look better if it were organized according to location, rather than attraction type. Right now, I have no idea where any of the attractions are in relation to one another. In the "orientation" section, it seems to state that the city is spread out, which makes it important to know what sites are located near one another and what sites are located in other areas. If it were organized by district, I think that would make it a more useful guide. ChubbyWimbus 18:42, 12 September 2009 (EDT)
Thanks. I will work on these. — Ravikiran 07:13, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. Great article, lots of detail. The 'Buy' section needs to be tidied, and 'Work' is empty; I'd suggest handling 'Learn' as paragraph rather than a list, and perhaps being more selective, identifying highlights and specialties. Under 'Cope', the bookstores should be in 'Buy', and the list of grocery stores could be collapsed to a couple of sentences identifying the major chains to look for. None of the serviced apartment listings match Wikitravel:Accommodation listings, although DotM candidates needn't be formatted to a tee. Gorilla Jones 19:44, 14 September 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Kunming

A good article on one of China's nicer cities, a provincial capital with some historical importance.

I live in China; to me this seems a major destination, DotM candidate. I wonder, though, if others might think it is more an "Off the beaten path" candidate. Among WT itineraries, Kunming is the jumping off point for Yunnan tourist trail (definitely well beaten), one end point for Overland Kunming to Hong Kong, and on some of the routes in Overland to Tibet and Long March.

  • Almost Support. The Do section is empty and the Eat section needs to be cleaned up, with some restaurants and preferably food pictures added, but other than that it's looking pretty good. I'd pop for DotM, it's a fairly major destination. Jpatokal 08:13, 3 September 2009 (EDT)
  • Not Yet It's a great destination, and is definitely more of a DotM, but I don't think it's ready yet. I think the "Understand" section could be more clear. Some of the entries/sections are not properly formatted. The organization of the "See" section would also be better if it were organized according to locale rather than arbitrary things like "Buildings" and "museums". The two temples could be presented better, also. Pictures are needed, as JPatokal pointed out. The "Do" section definitely needs content. No featured destination should have empty sections. ChubbyWimbus 20:59, 5 September 2009 (EDT)

Can an itinerary be DotM? Yunnan tourist trail covers four towns, three at guide & one a good outline, and two trekking areas, one guide & one stub. Could the whole thing be DotM? Pashley 21:29, 16 October 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Nara

The article is not yet ready, and unfortunately, it is a Japanese city, but I think it would be great to feature Nara in January, since it will be celebrating its 1300th anniversary (since it was Japan's capital) in 2010. Other months in 2010 would probably be okay, as well. I just think that since January marks the beginning of the anniversary year, it might be the best month. Anyways, comments? ChubbyWimbus 17:46, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Bali

Burmesedays did an absurdly good job on all the Bali articles, amazingly within the span of a month! It's only our second guide-level region, and I'd call it the best one on Wikitravel. It's a perfect DotM, and I think it would be a crime not to feature it. --Peter Talk 16:35, 30 September 2009 (EDT)

  • Support. Err.... I guess nobody is surprised by that :). Best time to visit is April to October but Bali does not really have a low season --Burmesedays 21:11, 30 September 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. Hear yea, really insanely great work! So... looking over the climate section, March would be an ideal good month to feature it no? --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 21:40, 30 September 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. I would suggest that we feature Bali in March as it is the month when Nyepi takes place. jan 11:07, 5 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. Great article. Gorilla Jones 23:00, 15 October 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Gili Islands

One of my favorite places in the world, and the article's in decent shape as well. Not ruined yet, but should be listed before it turns into the next Kuta. Best season is May-Oct, but quite usable any time of the year. Jpatokal 08:37, 30 September 2009 (EDT)

  • Support. Great article, and quite OtBP. Time to fill the queue with Indonesian articles, methinks. --Peter Talk 16:32, 30 September 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. A lovely place. Certainly not ruined yet as Jani says but it might be going that way. This nomination has prompted me to do a bit of work on the article also. I know Gili T especially well and a few little updates would help an already good article. --Burmesedays 21:07, 30 September 2009 (EDT)
  • Unsure It's a good article but are the Gili Islands still OtbP? It's definitely on the standard backpacker trail and even my travel agency in Zurich offered me Gili T as part of a package tour from Lombok to Bali. I will not disagree if we continue under OtbP but maybe users are surprised. jan 11:42, 5 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Yeah, I was thinking about that too, but it's still pretty OtBP outside the backpacker set -- no branded hotels etc. Even the package tour you mention probably only stops over in Gili T, right? Jpatokal 04:23, 6 October 2009 (EDT)
The organised tour started in Senggigi, Lombok stopped two nights at Gili T, then onwards to Nusa Lemboggan for some snorkeling and finished in Sanur, Bali. I had a quick look and the two biggest german speaking travel companies now offer for all package tourists this option. They do this primarily because European travel companies are still not allowed to book indonesian airlines due to the EU ban. Regards, jan 05:08, 6 October 2009 (EDT)
Strictly speaking I guess Gili T (especially) is no longer OtBT. And even within Indonesia you could make an argument for many places better deserving of this tag. The very nature of the place, the absence of any name hotels and the good state of the WT article makes it a valid candidate though I think.--Burmesedays 05:15, 6 October 2009 (EDT)
I added the Gili Islands in the schedule for February because it's a good time to start the preparation for a trip but Bali is in March... How about feature Bali and the Gilis jointly in March? That would make an interesting combination for travellers. jan 05:34, 6 October 2009 (EDT)
I think it is preferred to keep the DotM/OtBP diverse. Although there may be instances when the same country occupied both features, I'd rather avoid that. It makes the features less exciting when one nation dominates, and it doesn't showcase the full scope of Wikitravel. How about instead of featuring this with Bali we switch it with Tobacco Caye? Although Vientiane and Gili Islands are both in Southeast Asia, at least they are not both in the same country. ChubbyWimbus 11:41, 6 October 2009 (EDT)
Chubby, I forgot the different changing dates for DotM and OtbP so you are right, they will be featured for two weeks. I will do the change with Tobacco Caye. Feel free to change it further if there are any other ideas. jan 05:17, 7 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Withdrawn support. The more I think about this, the more I do not think it is such a good idea. The article is great and I love the place. But I think we are stretching the definition of OtBP here. The destination is relatively well known these days and as Jan pointed out it even crops up as part of fairly bland European (especially) package tours. There is also the country factor....... We are proposing to feature Indonesia twice in the near future which in itself is great. But there are some good, well-developed articles for truly OtBP destinations in Indonesia and I can see those getting short shrift because we have featured the Gili Islands which does not altogether fit the OtBP definition.--Burmesedays 23:28, 15 October 2009 (EDT)
Well, what category it should feature in shouldn't be the basis of your support, neither should whether you like or don't like the destinition, or when it should be featured. It should be judged on it's merits as an article. Details like that merely calls for discussion of those issues. Destinations can be parked her for a year if need be for the right timing. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 23:36, 15 October 2009 (EDT)
Really? If the point of these nominations is to highlight a destination and then judge it on the merit of the WT article with no regard for whether it fits a set of criteria, then I have completely misunderstood. --Burmesedays 00:01, 16 October 2009 (EDT)
→ You might want to give the #Select paragraph a re-read then :o) --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 00:07, 16 October 2009 (EDT)
Ah. Yes. Indeed. That'll teach me eh? :o) Not for the first time, thank you Stefan for pointing me in the right direction. So.... no problems at all with the article it is very good. It should though be a DoTM candidate not OtBP. There. :) --Burmesedays 00:43, 16 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Schedule proposal I think we should feature the Gilis in late spring 2010 (May/June) as DotM as compared to the competition of Niamey, Tobacco Caye, Hilversum etc. it is not really anymore OtBP. I also read Select and think that with the partial lift of the EU ban on indonesian airlines the no. of package tourists will significantly increase and in 2010 no one will argue anymore that it is OtBP. I think we should keep Hyderabad as proposed in January 2010 as it is the best time for a visit but Christchurch could be an alternative to the Asian overweights in the list. Would anyone oppose a shift of the Gilis to the Dotm section? jan 07:44, 16 October 2009 (EDT)
May or June is good scheduling for the Gilis: good weather but before the islands become over-run in July and August. The months to avoid are December to February when rains can be fairly extreme and the islands flood (wading through one metre of floodwater on Gili T is not much fun!). For reasons already stated, DoTM makes more sense to me for this destination.--Burmesedays 22:39, 16 October 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Khartoum

Another African find. This one in a much better shape than Niamey. It's extremely well written I think, it feels complete. There are some missing addresses here and there, but must of them has GPS coordinates instead, and this is Africa so I suspect there is a reason for those. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 11:17, 10 October 2009 (EDT)

  • Support, definitely. I find myself rather shocked that we have a great Sudanese article! And one that seems to have grown organically, without love from any one contributor. --Peter Talk 14:20, 10 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Nice, but needs work A surprisingly good article for the region, but I think it needs more information before it is fit for DotM...this is a city of EIGHT million! As for coordinates, they are very useful to some people, not at all to others. I've been doing a bit of browsing the past few months on the [2] and coordinates are used (& more useful than addresses) by practically everyone driving themselves...but for other tourists (and there are lots doing Cairo-Nairobi independently or with an overland bus) addresses are more helpful (even just the street name, esp. for telling the taxi driver and watching for signs on a minibus).
    • Photos: There is one good picture and one that isn't really necessary.
    • Intro: Needs some history and certainly needs some climate info
    • Get in: (By bus) Where's the new bus terminal/name? (By train) So the station is chaotic and trains erratic, but how do I get a ticket?
    • See: Could use some more items and lengthier descriptions.
    • Do: Two things?
    • Buy: Lists places, but are there any particular items which are good to buy?
    • Eat: I realize this is Africa and so there are thousands of small, good places to eat which frequently open/close and relocate...so we don't really need more listings. But this section would be best served by dividing it into the three sections of the city.
    • Drink: Why does 'drink'='alcohol'. Is tea served anywhere?
    • Cope: A few more embassy listings.
    • Get out: Descriptions should be more brief and those destinations should have their own article. I think the Red Sea area and Jebel Barkal listings are too far away (and in whole other regions of Sudan) to be listed.
    • Stay Safe: A VERY important section is missing! While the city is considered one of the safest for expats in E.Africa (despite violence elsewhere in the country), there are quite a few cultural sensitivities. If you follow the news, you'd know that in Khartoum: a schoolteacher was imprisoned for naming a teddybear Muhammed, a Sudanese journalist was jailed and sentenced to a fine & 40 lashes for wearing trousers (deemed inappropriate attire for a woman), and a US embassy employee and his driver were shot to death last year by conservative Islamists (although terrorism isn't really a huge threat). Political topics should be avoided. Some are sensitive to the North-South conflict (I think the South will vote on independence in a year or two), the Darfur conflict (I doubt many will side with Westerners who blame the Sudanese gov't), and the warrant for Bashir's arrest issued earlier this year (which Western governments lauded).
So, while the article is much better than most African ones, I think a lot of info should be added to bring it to true guide status and to be featured. The second edition Bradt guide (the best guides to African countries) for Sudan should be released this December, [3]. The first edition is a bit outdated, and this one claims a big update to Khartoum info. I got the Bradt guides to Mali, Niger, & Nigeria this summer and they are truly incredible in their scope of these 'off-the-beaten-path' destinations...if someone picks up this guide, I guarantee we could have a star article for Khartoum. Another good source of info is over at LP Thorntree [4]. I'd do most of the updating myself, but I'm very busy (and it's quite late at night while I'm writing this)...hopefully I'll find time to contribute to this fine destination soon. AHeneen 02:57, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
The Stay safe argument is quite compelling, so should we slush this? --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 17:31, 14 October 2009 (EDT)
NO. As far as safety goes, visitors must simply be careful to avoid insulting Islam (I think it's about the same as in Saudi Arabia or Iran) and avoiding politics concerning the North-South conflict and the president's role in the Darfur conflict (just like you shouldn't discuss politics in many countries). Khartoum seems to me like an interesting city in the region, and with just a little work (like I outlined) it could be a great DotM. AHeneen 23:13, 14 October 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Washington, D.C.

It's one of the world's top tourist destinations, the U.S. capital, my hometown, with a collection 3 star articles and 9 guides, something like 25 maps marking every last listing in the guide, and we've even managed to get the breadcrumbs to display! I've gone through the (rather stiff) travel guide competition at the bookstores downtown, and I think our guide is competitive with the best of them. I'm still polishing it before future star nominations (getting better photos, proofing, weeding out some of the stranger rubbish I've written, etc.), but I think it's certainly ready for a DotM feature. The only bad time of the year to visit is summer, but that's also peak season, so I'd consider it fine to feature any time of year. The "classic" visiting time of year, though, is of course cherry blossom season. --Peter Talk 16:27, 12 October 2009 (EDT)

  • Support Well, this is one of our best city guides across the whole site, so I really can't find any reason we shouldn't feature it. Is cherry blossom season April or May? --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 09:39, 14 October 2009 (EDT)
No way to tell in advance, as it depends on the weather, or perhaps whether the beavers see their shadow. I'd bank on global warming and say April. --Peter Talk 13:23, 14 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Support It's an amazing article and i think it is best featured in April because starting with the Easter holidays the main travel season starts.jan 08:56, 14 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Support Wonderful article and one that should be used as an example of how to write a large city article. Spring would be good.... best to avoid summer as the weather is truly foul. --Burmesedays 09:32, 14 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. Easy call on this. Gorilla Jones 23:00, 15 October 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Christchurch

Another find outside our core areas, this time found among our most edited destinations. We might have the (usual) issues with formatting again, but the content definitively seems up to standards. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 08:21, 14 October 2009 (EDT)

  • Almost support. I like the article and the city, and I'm not a stickler for formatting, but there are a handful of junk listings that would need to be cleaned out, and I'd like to see a bit more organization within the headings to emphasize highlights — as it is, they're all just long lists of listings. Gorilla Jones 23:00, 15 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. Great destination (when it is not foggy and raining... errr.... ). The article looks a wee bit untidy at first glance but nothing that a quick spring clean would not put right. And it needs a climate section as the weather is an extremely important factor down there. --Burmesedays 23:10, 15 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Soft support The sleep section is weak with non standard listings (budget/mid-range/splurge), the article does not have a map and some minor formatting issues that can be handled until the article goes online. jan 09:13, 16 October 2009 (EDT)
    • With only eight listings, the budget/mid-range/splurge headers are not needed. =) LtPowers 09:41, 16 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Needs work With only 8 listings, the Sleep section is woefully inadequate for a city the size of Christchurch. One sleep listing is probably better in a separate Lincoln article rather than Christchurch, while the other 7 are a rather incomplete selection of mostly downtown accommodation. There are many (hundreds, perhaps even a thousand) more places to sleep in Christchurch than those listed, both in the city and the suburbs. Enought to justify budget/mid-range/splurge headings with 10 or more places listed in each. Many of the other listings lack addresses or other contact details. Also, there is no mention of Canterbury University or other places of learning. - Huttite 05:49, 19 October 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Bromo-Tengger-Semeru National Park

I have wanted to get one of the Indonesian park articles to a state where it could be nominated for some weeks now and here it is. It is not the longest of articles but it provides a good, accurate guide to the park. And you get to look at one of Mr Patokallio's finest which is used as the lead image.

A bit of history for this article. When I first had a look at the East Java region articles, there was one each for Mount Bromo and Mount Semeru and another one for the national park. Clearly that did not make too much sense so all 3 were combined into one. You could make arguments for this being DoTM or OtBP. It is not that well known a destination internationally but is very much on the domestic Indonesian tour package circuit. Hence I am fairly ambivalent as to which category is more appropriate. Best time to visit is April through September. --Burmesedays 01:33, 17 October 2009 (EDT)

  • Support but unsure if OtBP or DotM. I usually tend to think that a National Park is OtBP but maybe this is different jan 07:27, 19 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. I'd just barely lean towards DotM, but wouldn't object too loudly to this being an OtBP. Jpatokal 10:34, 1 November 2009 (EST)

[edit] Lisbon

Although it was refused some time ago it is more complete now, and it's a very popular tourist destination. —The preceding comment was added by 188.81.106.36 (talk • contribs)

Not Yet Although I have never been to Lisbon, I have a sneaky suspicion that there is more to see and do in the city than what is listed. Also, the "See" section lacks organization. Districts make better subsections than the arbitrary headings like "Architecture". The transportation information does not really belong in the "See" section. It seems better suited for "Get around". ChubbyWimbus 22:30, 28 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Oppose Lisbon is a fantastic city, and this guide still really doesn't do it any justice. --Stefan (sertmann) talk 02:52, 30 October 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Kuching

Impressively comprehensive guide, with some nice pictures to boot. --Stefan (sertmann) talk 02:52, 30 October 2009 (EDT)

A few things: The "Do" and "Drink" sections need more descriptions. Are all of the food specialties specific to Kuching or could some be moved into the regional article? Also, many of the listings are not properly formatted. (To those who keep saying formatting is not required, I'd like to point out that it is listed as a requirement through the statement, "listings/headers/etc. that match our manual of style." Formatting is part of the manual of style, and "listings" are even mentioned directly. Please continue the discussion on the talk page if you have any thoughts on this.) ChubbyWimbus 16:32, 30 October 2009 (EDT)
Virtually all of those food items should be moved over to Sarawak, which already lists most of them with the same pictures to boot... Jpatokal 10:20, 1 November 2009 (EST)
Yeah, was thinking that might come up, what if we temporarily delete (move to the talk page) those empty listings while it's featured? there are plenty of others to go on. Aaaand, If you're going to oppose it on the merrit of the lack of "new style" format, I'll just go right ahead and slush this one again, cause I sure as hell ain't doing all that work, but I still think it's a pitty to disqualify good good guides on that basis. --Stefan (sertmann) talk 17:02, 30 October 2009 (EDT)
Unless the "Do" and "Drink" sections are deemed to be lacking too much, I don't think it needs to be slushed for the formatting. If it were next month's feature, it would be more urgent, but since this is unscheduled, there could very well be 6 months before it is featured. That would be enough time for someone (not necessarily you) to put the listings in proper format. ChubbyWimbus 03:49, 31 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. It would be very cool to have a Brunei feature, and this one is, I think, certainly up to guide status and thus qualifies for a feature. I don't think deleting the very few unfinished listings would be worthwhile—that wouldn't IMO be an improvement, and if anything we should hope that they will encourage a new user to fill them out! --Peter Talk 04:25, 1 November 2009 (EST)
    • Agreed, but I think you meant Borneo 8) Jpatokal 10:20, 1 November 2009 (EST)
  • Support, slightly grudgingly. It is good when DoTM are actually nice places and I dont't like Kuching much. I know likes and dislikes are supposed to be irrelevant, however... :) More objectively, it is a good article for sure and certainly worthy of a DoTM. --Burmesedays 10:32, 1 November 2009 (EST)

[edit] Nominations for Off the Beaten Path

[edit] Tobacco Caye

In an effort to break a record for shortest time from article creation to otbp nom, ladies and gentleboys, I present you Tobacco Caye, in 4 minutes flat. You can stand on one shore, and with powerful lungs, spit across to the other. Aside from Caribbean hurricane season, there's not a terrible time to feature it. And no, there's not very much more you can say about it, it's a small article, and will likely always remain so – cacahuate talk 21:06, 16 January 2009 (EST)

Support Everything obviously looks to be in order :) --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 01:38, 23 January 2009 (EST)

  • Support - Great little article. Let's run this in November or December, after the hurricane season and as the weather in North America grows cold again. (It's when people start thinking about their Caribbean vacations). WineCountryInn 15:05, 24 January 2009 (EST)
  • Support -- with reservations. The article certainly qualifies on its merits, but I'm detecting a growing tendency not to consider a place "really" OtBP unless it's a dinky desert island in the middle of nowhere. If we do use this one (and make no mistake, I favor it), let's slot it in at a time when some other kinds of OtBPs have been in the spotlight for a while. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 21:57, 24 February 2009 (EST)

[edit] Mae Salong

Curious little nook of Thailand that would make a great little winter OtBP — and it's neither island nor beach! Best season is November-February. Jpatokal 02:40, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

  • Support. Nice work! – cacahuate talk 19:21, 18 May 2009 (EDT)
  • Support, looks good but the Do section is VERY light. Would make a good winter destination as there tends to be less nominations then I think. edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 20:01, 19 May 2009 (EDT).
  • Support Could use a few more "Eat" listings and the pictures need organized, but it's a nice little OtBP. ChubbyWimbus 03:09, 30 June 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Arusha

Another nice little article courtesy of a relatively new user, which would be our second ever featured article from Sub-Saharan Africa. --Peter Talk 19:57, 30 March 2009 (EDT)

  • Support and since this more or less smack under the equator, it's good to feature in winter, where we are usually short on good guides to display. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 08:50, 1 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Are there really only 3 things to "See and Do"? (there are four bullets, but the second thing listed to "Do" is leave, which makes it even more noticeable that there's nothing to do/see...) It would be great to feature this (and I like the market photo), but it just seems rather bare. Does it really offer so little? ChubbyWimbus 08:48, 19 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Don't Support —While interesting and helpful to a visitor, I think the "usable" status is very appropriate. There is very little under see & Do (which shouldn't be combined), could possibly use a few more "eat" listings, & the opening of the "sleep" section should be rewritten & include addresses. I agree w/ChubbyWimbus that it is quite "bare". I don't know about attractions there, but it's in the Serengeti and very close to several safari hotspots (Ngorongoro Crater, Lake Manyara, & Tarangire National Park). It's also the largest city near Mount Kilimanjaro (Moshi is much smaller). My guess is that it's more of a base for exploring nearby areas than a tourist destination in-and-of-itself. AHeneen 22:59, 10 May 2009 (EDT)
  • Support, looks well written overall. edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 22:05, 15 May 2009 (EDT).
  • Don't support. It's only at usable status, and I agree with AHeneen, not up to guide quality yet. Arusha is primarily a base for surrounding excursions into parks and up mountains, and an overland stop between Nairobi and Dar es Salaam, so should discuss further and point to those options.... eat/drink/sleep all need beefing up and more info, at the moment you wouldn't know that it's probably the most visited place in Tanzania – cacahuate talk 18:02, 9 July 2009 (EDT)
  • Combine Arusha and Moshi as one OTBPArusha has Mt. Meru, Moshi has Kilimanjaro and they both have safaris. If anything, the Moshi article is more informative. If you go to Arusha you will almost certainly go to Moshi, and vice versa (I did!). So why not feature them both?Shep 14:43, 28 August 2009 (EDT)
  • If Arusha and Moshi were both up to standard, then I think they would probably each be able to stand on their own as featured destinations. Currently, the Moshi article is not up to status. If you would like to work on it, some of the issues I notice are
    • It needs pictures
    • change first person to third person in some sentences
    • The "See" and "Other Activities" (in "Do" section) are not formatted properly. The "Add listing" feature will help to fill in the necessary information. Each temple and mosque should be written with their respective names and info
    • This goes along with properly formatting, but specific information is needed. Things like, "Tours can be arranged through several companies, and it is advisable to use common sense when finding a company. Your best bet is to ask other tourists who they used" are not very helpful. Wikitravel is supposed to be the guide, so advising people to "ask other tourists" is not the type of suggestion we want to give. ChubbyWimbus 21:02, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Olomouc

The article is already in the guide status but I think there are still things to be improved (I am working on that - comments are welcome). It is probably the most beautiful city in the Czech Republic but unknown to most travelers, so I think it is an excellent destination for the "off the beaten track" category. Probably the best time to visit the city is spring (it is the city of flowers after all) but it needs some work and the queue is full anyway, so I would like to schedule it for spring 2010 - probably April, as it is the time of the traditional flower exhibition. Kyknos 17:33, 20 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Close, but not there yet. Needs more Sleep listings, and almost all listings are lacking proper addresses, contact information, websites, and MoS formatting. In particular, it should never be "X is foo", but "X, address, tel, website. This is..." Jpatokal 06:08, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
  • Support with the same reservations as mentioned above by Jpatokal. Olomouc is a very nice city. It is a bit different from the most visited, western part of Czech republic and should certainly by highlighted. I believe that there is still a lot of time to do the necessary improvements. Atsirlin 03:57, 4 May 2009 (EDT)
  • Not yet. This would be a great destination to feature, but I think the critical deficiencies are the missing addresses throughout the article (shouldn't be too hard to track down for a motivated contributor, I think), and the near empty sleep section. So track down the addresses (at least, although other contact info is obviously desirable), and add at least 3 more hotels, and I think we have an OtBP. --Peter Talk 00:19, 17 July 2009 (EDT)
  • Don't Support To add to what Peter says, the listings are not properly formatted (which I think is likely the reason content is missing from the listings). Also, the "Get out" section is not organized properly. It should focus on directing people to nearby cities, not random attractions. ChubbyWimbus 20:16, 29 August 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Flores (Guatemala)

I noticed it in the Star nomination slush pile and thought it had potential to make it as an Off the Beaten Track candidate. ChubbyWimbus 03:05, 17 May 2009 (EDT)

  • Support. This seems up to OtBP standards to me. And the objections last time around were fairly minor—I'm actually surprised that it was slushed, rather than moved to OtBP. Usually I'd nuke the tour operators, but Guatemala can be a hairy place, I suppose. (And I don't know enough about it to judge which ones to remove. --Peter Talk 03:41, 17 May 2009 (EDT)
  • Moderate support. Having visited it a few months ago, I realized how far off my old dreams of star status for Flores were. Unfortunately a lost passport thwarted my plans of making it an awesome star article while I was in town. Many of the listings are not on the map, and I think several of them may not even exist anymore, but I made a new map today and placed as much as I could. It is a decent article, but it can get a lot better.... and is still way behind LP's coverage ;) It would also be ideal for the Tikal article to be up to guide status, since that's the reason 90% of Flores' visitors are here (and if it were up to status, I would propose it instead). But I think it may suffice if nothing better comes along – cacahuate talk 15:14, 17 May 2009 (EDT)
  • Don't support Neutral - I ran into this a while ago, while looking for candidates outside our usual areas' (Asia & North America), and considered nominating it - but decided against it since I found a lot of the information really lagging. A good example is the do listings "rent a canoe/hire a covered boat" fine, but some listings - or in case it's to disorganised for listings, some information on where to do this/how much should I pay, would be nice. and Wes' comments above just add's to that. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 15:52, 17 May 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Big Bend National Park

A little-known U.S. National Park in Texas that deserves attention; it's a fantastic place to visit after October (after the rainy season ends), when temperatures are milder. Army of me 01:05, 30 June 2009 (EDT)

  • Support. A gorgeous article -- it's not just OTBP-worthy, but a star. Jpatokal 02:11, 30 June 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. This has got to be one of the most clear cut nominations in a long time—it's a great article, and will be a great showcase for our site. --Peter Talk 23:52, 30 June 2009 (EDT)
  • Support I think it's nice to have an article featured at star status, which I don't think has been done before! I know it's not technically there now, but by the time it's featured it will be (barring any major objections). Well done! ChubbyWimbus 00:04, 1 July 2009 (EDT)
Just to add, if you think November or December would be the best featured month, I'd support bumping the others down. ChubbyWimbus 00:07, 1 July 2009 (EDT)
  • Support, Great article, and it's good for the variety too, since we actually don't have too many North American destinations up for nomination at the moment. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 21:48, 30 September 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Hilversum

Thanks to User:Globe-trotter, this page looks really great! At a glance, the only thing I can see that it needs is pictures. ChubbyWimbus 01:20, 27 July 2009 (EDT)

  • Support. Wow—Globe-trotter did a lot of work this week! It looks great. More pictures would certainly be nice, but I think it's already up to OtBP standards. --Peter Talk 04:04, 27 July 2009 (EDT)
  • Thanks a lot for the nomination! :) You are right about the pictures, I came home yesterday and will try to make some and add them to the page. Globe-trotter 15:17, 27 August 2009 (EDT)
  • Support Preferably with, but also without extra images. Very complete, and jaw-dropping maps :) --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 18:06, 27 August 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. Amazing work! What's the best time for this, spring? Jpatokal 22:34, 27 August 2009 (EDT)
  • I'd say April-September is the best climate here, in the winter it's not so pleasant cycling or walking around. Globe-trotter 10:10, 28 August 2009 (EDT)
  • I added some pictures, and I'll add some more later on. Globe-trotter 19:33, 31 August 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Falun

Wow, this old mining town in North-western Sweden must be one of the best destination guides in Scandinavia! Very nearly a star even. I think many people explore our previously off the beaten path guides, so featuring it more prominently might push it the last stretch. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 07:21, 9 October 2009 (EDT)

Support. Amazing article! Jpatokal 08:06, 9 October 2009 (EDT)
Support. Very good article indeed. --Burmesedays 10:05, 9 October 2009 (EDT)
Chuckle. I'm in China and the Great Firewall won't let me read that article. Pashley 10:11, 9 October 2009 (EDT)
G-O-N-G! :) --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 10:13, 9 October 2009 (EDT)
Support Good article that should be featured in late spring or early summer. jan 13:56, 9 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. A shame Jake forswore future mapmaking—that's a nice one! --Peter Talk 19:08, 9 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. Superb photos, a map, and tight formatting. Nothing not to like. Gorilla Jones 23:09, 15 October 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Niamey

Found this one, and I LOVE it!! so I tried to beef it up to standards. The eat section is chaotic but flat out amazing! and there is loads of other good information in there. If you find anything wrong, please help fix it, I want to see that eat section featured really bad, and it would be one of our few African features - they really don't hang on trees :)

  • Support! --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 00:31, 10 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Really interesting article and I see you have done a load of work on it Stefan... kudos. I am not convinced it is guide status yet though. Needs more background info; perhaps an Understand section would do the job. I will try to dive in there and help with the formatting when I have a minute. With some further clean up and expansion, definitely a support. I love the info box which gives the price of used socks in the market - tremendous :)--Burmesedays 00:38, 10 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. Great find! It does need an understand section, though—"X is the capital of Y" is not a whole lot of context. Should be easy to throw together before a feature, though. Also, it might be worth considering whether this could be a DotM, rather than an OtBP. It certainly isn't a major tourist hub, but it is the capital and largest city of a big nation. --Peter Talk 00:44, 10 October 2009 (EDT)
Yeah, I know it's a bit ethnocentric probably, but we are in the middle of the desert in a city of less than a million in a country I suspect most people have never even heard of. The above rationale fits a bit better to Khartoum which I nominated above, not on a tourist trails either, but a major African city. Anyway, added an introduction and a climate and history section. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 11:27, 10 October 2009 (EDT)
Maybe I think the listings should be formatted properly first. I am also not sure about the lack of "See" and "Do" options. I have to ask: Is there anyone who can verify that this city only has 3 sites? I feel like I'm running into a wall with that question, but if it can be avoided, I'd like to support it on the basis of completeness rather than on my own ignorance (and assumed ignorance of those who will see the feature). Anyone who checks this page been to Niamey by any chance? ChubbyWimbus 03:07, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
OK, some points here. I did a thorough update making sure everything outside the eat section is properly formatted, and in the same process I read up up quite extensively on the city to find addresses etc., and I'm pretty sure the see and do sections are near complete (LP, Tripadvisor, IgoUgo for example don't have any more than we have, and wikipedia barely has an article. As for the restaurant listings; I think they are awesome, and I think disqualifying a guide on this basis is a slippery slope, it's not a star nomination. Dharamsala, Sihanoukville or Virgin Gorda didn't have complete phone numbers and adresses on all the listings either, and using the new listings format is not a requirement as far as I'm aware. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 07:07, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

It's the debate about well formatted text versus the listings template again :) A small point, but it would be good if the prices were all formatted as per WT style guidelines (i.e with a comma for the thousands and the currency symbol before the amount). Also, is the currently-used "F" an acceptable abbreviation of the West African Franc? Or should it be Fr? I have already re-done all the phone numbers to be consistent and in line with WT style and am happy to do the currency, if we agree on an abbreviation.--Burmesedays 09:24, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
I guess I should clarify what I meant by proper "formatting". I don't mean that it needs to be star status and have information in each space. What I mean is that in this case, the "Eat" listings should be listed as the (eat name=, Etc.) format (which they are not). I think you did some work on this already. I am not really referring to the content as much as the presentation, although the content is also much easier to critique if it is in the proper format. It's not a requirement, but I think that it should be. It doesn't require any knowledge or research about a location to do; it just requires time. I don't think that's such a slippery slope. ChubbyWimbus 15:07, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
If it's not a requirement, it's not a requirement until it's been proposed and agreed on either on this talk page or in our policy for guide level articles, it could probably use discussion, so I suggest you go ahead and do that. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 15:42, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
Apologies for appearing overly-anal when there are larger matters being discussed, but my question about the currency? I believe it should be either F 1,000 or Fr 1,000. --Burmesedays 23:56, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Support I went to a bookstore and looked at the few sources that had Niamey travel (sadly they didn't have the Bradt guide). Even if other sites exist in the city, you are correct that our guide does at least match the other guides in coverage. Probably the "Eat" section surpasses them. As for the formatting, even if the conclusion of the discussion is that it is not wanted, since this city does not yet have a tentative month, I think there is plenty of time to format it. I could do it myself when I have time if no one else wants to. Oh, and a comment was made above about whether this is a DotM or OtBP... I am thinking DotM, since it is a capital city. If the capital city can't be a DotM, then can any city? ChubbyWimbus 20:12, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
I Think this was never agreed on, as it's highly subjective, but I do think capitals can be OtBP, have you ever heard of Palikir, Lomé or Castries before? Though it's not something I'm particularly adamant about. The whole country of Niger have 60.000 tourist arrivals per year compared to 55.000 on previously OtBP Svalbard and 60.000 on the Falkland islands from cruise ships alone, though that was not techically OtBP. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 21:05, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
I DO have the Bradt guide! It's great (22 pages of info/maps for Niamey) and hopefully a lot of the hotels/restaurants listed are still open. Unfortunately, the security situation has changed a lot since the guide was written (for almost everywhere besides the southwest)...such a shame because places like Agadez and Air/Tenere are now very unsafe/impossible(legally) to reach yet they seem far more intriguing than Niamey. I'm quite busy, but I'll certainly try to find some time over the next few weeks to fill in some good Niamey info. I agree with Sertman that this should be an OtBP. AHeneen 22:49, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

→ discussion about OtBP vs DoTM is getting general, moved to Wikitravel Talk:Destination of the Month candidates

  • Support I've added quite a bit of info the last two days, creating, adding to, or rewriting the Climate, orientation, climate, by plane, addresses, see, do, buy, learn, & contact sections. The few things I've got left are: expanding "History", add local operators under "Tourism Information", add "By boat" & "By car" and cleanup the "By bus" sections in Get in, "Respect" & "Stay safe" maybe need a rewrite, add money exchange under "Cope", add to "Get out", & add lots of pictures. With a little more work, we can truly bring this to guide status. A few good sources for you to help contribute are: Niger Ministry of Tourism website en Francais, InfosNiger.com also in French, The Bradt Guide to Nigeria on Google Books page 93, & Nigerien Embassy in Canada click "Travel & Tourism". Not sure how copyright would impact this, but the guide Google Books has maps which could be traced to give this article a map. AHeneen 22:28, 15 October 2009 (EDT)
Thanks a bunch for that, awsome! don't think I have the urge to fiddle any more with it, but I'll chip in if it comes back. As for maps - that is a definite nono! no need though, Openstreetmap has nearly complete coverage of the city, and most definitely good enough for a WT style map if you get it aligned right. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 22:40, 15 October 2009 (EDT)
One other thing is timing. I see it has been moved to January. December & January have the best (coolest) weather, while February-May are quite hot (around 40 degrees). I think that January is good timing...December or even November might be a little better, but of course priority should be given to destinations nominated earlier. AHeneen 00:33, 16 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. Good find and good work! Gorilla Jones 23:09, 15 October 2009 (EDT)
  • The Niamey article reads so well now. Well done everyone who put the effort in. As an aside, here is another interesting OtBP African article. Needs a huge amount of tidying up but the information content is very rich. --Burmesedays 07:12, 28 October 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Ravello

A little jewel on the Amalfi coast apparently, someone put a lot of work and love into this - unlike most of our other Italian destinations outside salvaged Rome. Guess we could have the whole DoTM OtBP path discussion again, but even though it's a relatively popular destination (in the hugely popular amalfi coast) but it's only home of 2,500 people. I really don't care either way, as long as it's featured - so be my guest to move it up there.

  • Support obviously --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 12:33, 19 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Looks like you need another category. This a great little article. But perhaps Ravello is not big enough nor easy enough to reach for DoTM. On the other hand it's not exactly OtBP either.Shep 13:39, 19 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Strong support Stefan, how do you find this great articles? Nevertheless Ravello is in imho a OtBP and excellent for the scenery and the good wine.jan 13:58, 19 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Support. Ravello is gorgeous—I always snicker a little when Americans rave about their profligate vacations in Tuscany (which I rather think looks like Virginia...), when they miss out on the Amalfi Coast. A fine little article, and I think it's fine for OtBP (whereas the Amalfi Coast as a whole or Sorrento would be DotM material). --Peter Talk 15:41, 19 October 2009 (EDT)
  • Support I think the page would look better if the Ravello Cathedral image was removed. It looks like a postcard, and the copyright pasted onto the picture is annoying. Would anyone be opposed to getting rid of it? The page has plenty of nice photos and the church photo is not particularly grand anyway. ChubbyWimbus 14:10, 28 October 2009 (EDT)
Going to remove it, and vfd'ed on shared, it's under ND. --Stefan (sertmann) talk 14:32, 28 October 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Franklin (Venango County)

Surprisingly, there are not many American nominees, and if I'm not mistaken, this would be the first feature from Pennsylvania. Because the OtBP's operate from the 15 of each month, this would be best featured in September so that it would cover Applefest in early October. ChubbyWimbus 00:11, 30 October 2009 (EDT)

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