Wikitravel:Travellers' pub

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The Travellers' pub is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the FAQ and Help page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'.

Please add new questions at the bottom of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (~~~~) to it, but otherwise plunge forward!

  • If you have a question or suggestion about a particular article, try using talk pages to keep the discussion specific to that article.

Wikitravel Upgrade[edit]

Our new site upgrade has just launched!
We're happy to announce that Wikitravel has been updated to the latest version of mediawiki. Over the next few hours, the admin team will be testing the site as much as possible to catch and fix any bugs resulting from the update. We'd appreciate any help we can get! Simply report bugs to on our shared site.

Some of the new changes include:

  • an updated edit toolbar
  • an updated user toolbar
  • notifications
  • table of contents on banners now have dropdowns with sub-sections
  • multimedia galleries on every page
  • a new, easy to use photo upload form that will be live shortly
  • many small performance and efficiency changes

Site performance maybe a little weird over the next few days as we stabilize the newest release, thanks for being patient!


ideas for group travel, family that does not get together much[edit]

HI What a fabulous project! I cannot believe I never found this before. Some of my family wants to get together more often and we are trying to organize a group trip, 5 or so days, prepaid food options, lots of activities, and I don't think we care where we go but some need to keep the costs down. Most of the family is in the north east. Any one have suggestions about places to go, cruises to try, etc.

Hi there! If I had to make a suggestion, I would say Vermont! It's beautiful there and relatively less costly than a lot of places in New England. IBJoel (talk) 15:59, 15 June 2016 (EDT)
Hello! Ignore having family trips during Spring months March and April because of Spring Breakers. Cabo San Lucas has many beach hotels with cheap all-inclusive packages and fun water attractions for the kids. Puerto Peñasco aka Rocky Point has many affordable beach houses to rent. Catalina Island is chalk full of family visitors and easily noticeable activities all along the beach. I suggest renting a house or condo near the main city of Avalon. Catalina is my top preference for you because of the darling city and the family-friendly environment. IBrobin (talk) 16:12, 15 June 2016 (EDT)

Uploading the pictures[edit]

Could someone help me to upload the pictures? I click "Upload a picture" and I am automatically log out. What is the reason and how to avoid it? —The preceding comment was added by M.izhyk (talkcontribs)

Hi, when you click "Upload a picture" it automatically redirects you to Wikitravel Shared, where all pictures need to be uploaded. Once uploaded there you can then add them to the articles. A separate account is needed so just create one there and follow the instructions on the site. If you have any further questions, please let us know, your edits are appreciated! Thank you Adzas (talk) 05:59, 6 March 2016 (EST)

question about travel, concerning the people leaving the middle east and going to europe[edit]

does the migration of people affect the travel industry? Are all the hotels/hostels full, etc? 56.0.84.26 16:39, 17 March 2016 (EDT)

Hello! have no worry: migrants don't affect the travel industry as they don't stay at hostels and don't eat at restaurants. Actually, on the contrary, there is plenty of space and prices may even tend to be cheaper. (Talking about Southern Europe, where you should head to for great holidays ;) ) PierrB (talk) 20:07, 14 May 2016 (EDT)

San Francisco.[edit]

There appears to be no main page for San Francisco. I can't remember having ever seen one, but I'm pretty sure there must have been one at one point so it looks as if it's been deleted. There are still district pages there (eg San_Francisco/Tenderloin) but no main page. Can it be restored?

--Ruudboy (talk) 10:29, 24 March 2016 (EDT)

Hi, thanks for noticing that, I am not sure what happened but the page has been restored now. Thanks again for letting us know. Adzas (talk) 11:03, 24 March 2016 (EDT)

Updates: April 2016[edit]

A new month means new featured pages on the home page!

Stroopwafel
Berlin is April's Destination of the Month - this major city was long overdue for it's rightful title.
Huangshan takes its place as our pick for Off the Beaten Path - its wondrous peaks have captivated Chinese artists for centuries.
Stonehenge is the Landmark of the Month - its well-known around the world and a natural pick.
Persian is our Language of the Month - Every bit as regal as it is ancient.
Our itinerary pick is Hong Kong in a day. Should you be so lucky to be in the area, this guide can help you see it all.
The Cuisine of the Month is Dutch. They have a sweet tooth and so do we!

New features will go up in May, feel free to make suggestions in this thread. The articles should have a healthy amount of content and several pictures! IBcaldera (talk) 19:07, 1 April 2016 (EDT)

Huangshan certainly deserves a spot here. It's not only one of the best-known scenic attractions, but also a cultural icon throughout Chinese history. It would be nice if other well-know mountains such as Mount Tai and Huashan are featured too. 123.139.106.245 07:56, 2 April 2016 (EDT)
The landmark of the month blurb has a typo. Or at least it's missing a word. It says: "There are many theories and questions surrounding." ... which isn't a complete sentence. Probably needs the word "it" at the end. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 11:35, 2 April 2016 (EDT)
Hi, thanks for noticing the typo in the Stonehenge blurn, I just corrected it. Adzas (talk) 11:57, 2 April 2016 (EDT)
Great to see the Dutch Cuisine of the Month! Me being dutch but living in Portugal, I do miss our food sometimes. Eating a liquorice as we speak, brought by guests who arrived....... Adzas (talk) 12:03, 2 April 2016 (EDT)

How to request edits to templates?[edit]

Is there a way to "ping" someone with template editing privileges? On other wikis, they usually have some kind of "request edit" template that gets stuck on the talk page with a description of the requested change, but I wasn't able to find the equivalent here on wikitravel.

The IPA template has an extra line break before the <noinclude> which is causing funny formatting when transcluded. If you include a space after using the template, then the line break forces the space to a new line, causing it to preformat the subsequent text. This is causing the My Son page to render oddly.

Can someone fix the template (just remove the line break between the close parenthesis and the <noinclude>), and perhaps add some information somewhere accessible on how to request a change to a template? Thanks, Mukkakukaku (talk) 12:04, 2 April 2016 (EDT)

Fixed Mukkakukaku, this is the best place to ping someone. Thanks for your sharp eye. Koavf (talk) 10:07, 3 April 2016 (EDT)

English food?[edit]

I'm travelling to the UK in the fall, mostly staying in Southampton and London. How's the food? I've heard mixed things from friends. IBJoel (talk) 15:28, 12 May 2016 (EDT)

I have tried english food before while I was in london. I found it to be shallow and pedantic. --Tyen (talk) 15:30, 12 May 2016 (EDT)
Ok, all joking aside. While I didn't eat at any fancy restaurants, I found it to be a bit boring and very salty, just wasn't for me. Best of luck on your trip! --Tyen (talk) 11:57, 13 May 2016 (EDT)
South Asian I've heard that the best South Asian food in the world is in the UK (I have never been)--look for Indian restaurants if you like that type of cuisine. And who doesn't? Koavf (talk) 08:29, 14 May 2016 (EDT)
Great tip, I'll have to remember this next time I'm on the others side of the pond! --Tyen (talk) 14:32, 16 May 2016 (EDT)
Basically English food is all co-opted from their historic colonies. I wouldn't be surprised if Hong Kong food is very popular. --Ibrshao (talk) 14:34, 16 May 2016 (EDT)
Interesting Ibrshao, I'll have to try more than just fish and chips and full english breakfast! --Tyen (talk) 16:49, 18 May 2016 (EDT)
Thanks Koavf! I've heard the same, especially about curry! And while I'm kind of a wimp when it comes to spice, I still suffer through it for good Indian. A friend from Gujurat used to make great dinners. Any experience on the more "traditional" UK stuff? IBJoel (talk) 14:47, 16 May 2016 (EDT)
The classic british fish and chips always tends to be better from seaside towns, particularly those with an active fishing fleet. For the full experience ensure you takeaway and eat out of the paper wrapping. Alecf (talk) 16:47, 18 May 2016 (EDT)
Alecf, in the newspaper, right?! Any word on roasts? I'm American and I know they're popular here, but I'm going to take a stab and say they're a little different on the other side of the pond. IBJoel (talk) 16:52, 18 May 2016 (EDT)
Haha yeah, its not printed newspaper, just the same kind of paper. Roast dinners are difficult because a lot of them are mass produced and bland, not your classic home cooked job. Probably have best luck for a roast at a good independent gastro pub. Too many pubs these days have become chains though. Alecf (talk) 17:19, 18 May 2016 (EDT)
The only proper way to do a roast at home is to sous vide and then sear at the end. Once I tried this method, I never went back. --Tyen (talk) 12:53, 19 May 2016 (EDT)
As a Brit I can say that we have have adopted many former colonies food. I would say that Gastro Pubs are the way to go if you want something decent that like British food and they also tend to do craft beer if your willing to pay a bit more. Otherwise getting a curry is a good idea though it is very different than the stuff you get in India mind you. All food that was appropriated by the UK has been given a British makeover. --Wandering Roman (talk) 04:31, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
This is great info!. I'll be sure to try these awesome suggestion. --Tyen (talk) 15:32, 27 May 2016 (EDT)

Good Sources for Banners?[edit]

Besides Flikr, where are good sites to find free for commercial use images? --Tyen (talk) 11:53, 20 May 2016 (EDT)

Wikimedia Commons and Creative Commons search. Koavf (talk) 01:02, 22 May 2016 (EDT)

Thanks this is good info! --Tyen (talk) 13:49, 23 May 2016 (EDT)

Manizales and Pereira[edit]

We have almost the same content on the See section of two pages: Manizales and Pereira. Any experts of Colombia who can help? GiulioC (talk) 10:35, 23 May 2016 (EDT)

Re: Appearance of external links / Front-Linked listings[edit]

I am a new user and trying to find an answer to what I think is a simple question: What format should external links have? This is one of the most basic things that people would do in the wiki (adding links to sites) and yet I'm seeing an incongruity between formatting and policy. As it stands in the external links help page [1] we should add labels to web pages and I'm fine with that, but then when I use the code for listings (e.g. " < sleep name="Test Listing" address="" phone="" fax="" url="" price="">Description.</sleep > " ) it automatically goes back to footnotes and I can't seem to change it.

I would not bring this up if it was a recent issue but people have been talking about this (using / not using footnotes; replacing the number of the footnote with a nice icon [2]) since 2007 and yet the code is still doing its same old thing.

As a new user, trying to add info to the site and then having to spend hours (trying to figure out what's going on with external links and why I can't get them to display in the way that I've been told to display them) seems very counter productive and demotivating. It makes me wonder how many other laymen have tried to make changes to pages and then just end up abandoning the whole thing cause guidelines don't match what's really going on and it all just takes to long to find an answer. Latest discussion I've seen about this, just makes it seem as if nothing is being changed and so what [3]

Similarly, the whole discussion about front linked listings has been going on since before 2005 [4] with no clear resolution in the primary guides (help file) on formatting (from what I can see, correct me if I'm wrong). Whilst I at first preferred front links for their aesthetic and simplicity, reading other people's counterpoints make it clear why front links aren't a good idea: As stated by Texugo 21:52, 17 July 2007 (EDT) [5], he points out how some listings appear worse because they don't have hyperlinks or that having longer hyperlinks (thanks to the hyperlinked name being longer) would make them more likely to be clicked.

If icons were to be used (a nice globe icon, easily recognizable as world wide web) this wouldn't need to be a discussion and the points raised would be resolved, using footnotes does solve the issue but people also complain about the aesthetics of it etc. Rhetorical (talk) 14:17, 23 May 2016 (EDT)

Uber/Lyft/Airbnb and the sharing economy[edit]

It's been a long time coming - WT doesn't have any formal guidelines on listing info about these kinds of services on the destination guides. We should figure this out because these services now play a major role in many travelers' lives.

Just some points to keep in mind:

  • we'd like to avoid an overage of AirBnB listings on the guides
  • we'd also really like to avoid people listing their personal Uber/lyft codes for their own gain
  • legality/availability of these services varies from destination to destination

So do you all feel that we should have centralized page containing info about sharing services, or that the info should be on the destination guides themselves, or a combo of the two?

Open floor for all ideas! IBcaldera (talk) 13:33, 24 May 2016 (EDT)

Perhaps a good idea would be to share the pickup areas at certain airports. I know LAX sometimes has uber pick up passengers at the departures area.--Tyen (talk) 15:24, 24 May 2016 (EDT)

I think a good place to start would be a discussion on how it compares to public transit in the city. Chicago is very condensed, but has its regarded L-Train, compared to Los Angeles, which is spread out and has a relatively poorly-developed mass transit system, even though, population-wise, the two cities are similarly sized. I had no trouble getting around on the L in Chicago, but I'm often forced to use Uber in LA.IBJoel (talk) 15:40, 24 May 2016 (EDT)
Uber/Lyft is just another type of taxi service network, and Airbnb is like a giant hotel chain. So it will be enough if the travellers know which city has these services. So I'm for a centralized page. If this info is to be put on the destination guides themselves, our articles may quickly be flooded with Uber/Lyft/Airbnb. --Binbin (talk) 03:28, 25 May 2016 (EDT)
I think a short mention in a location article with regards to Uber would be a good addition, but without Uber links on every single page, that would not add value. Any traveler who wants to use these services easily can find their website, but like IBJoel says, if the service offers an advantage in a certain location, more info should be available in the article. With regards to AirBnB, this service is so "temporary", an owner may rent one season, but the next season he is not, making listings outdated quickly. I rather see special hotel accommodations listed (no chain hotels but the charming hidden gems). Often the accommodation listings are so standard at the moment. If we allow AirBnB listings then soon there will be other requests, like homeaway, ownersdirect etc etc. A centralized page would just become a long page with lots of listings and urls, does a traveler looking for some quick info while at a location check that page? Do we want all those links? A mention that certain services exist would be great, but a flood of new listings would not help I think. Part of this discussion we should probably also add Apps, which are now an important part of life, but links we have been removing a lot as well. What do we want to see, what don´t we want to see. Interesting discussion. Adzas (talk) 09:53, 25 May 2016 (EDT)
I definitely wouldn’t want to see Airbnb listings. We already have to manage pages flooded with hotel listings, opening a door for Airbnb (and other similar services) would make things even more complicated and lead to endless discussions. It is such a widespread service that any traveller knows it, so in my opinion there is no need to add it, not even with a dedicated page. The thing about Uber and other similar taxi service is almost the same, but in some cities/areas it could be very useful as already explained. So, it’s ok to mention it but no links. Adzas mentioned Apps: this is another part of the story we should deal with, today there are many useful apps for travellers (and I’m not talking about taxis or accommodations). Some places of interest and public transports companies (National Rail in the UK for example) allow tourists to buy tickets via app: to mention such things in the articles would really benefit the travellers. GiulioC (talk) 09:10, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
We do have pages dedicated to hitch-hiking and it works pretty well, although it's of course more informal and free than any of the services mentioned, but the point is, our pages usually don't get polluted with hitch-hiking information. So why not having either one page per service for the entire world, one even one single special "sharing economy" page for the entire world? Given every system is pretty safe (coming with feedbacks and so on), while, for instance, in many places in this world hostels and taxis can be very tricky, it could be very benefical to travellers... And not bothering administrators so much, as everything would be on the same page... PierrB (talk) 11:48, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Adzas, that's a good point. An AirBnB can be rented out one week and then the owner can decide to never do it again. IBJoel (talk) 14:12, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Yes, airbnb wouldn't be a good choice! --Tyen (talk) 15:54, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Hey! Thank you for starting the discussion! Like many of you I'm opting for having one centralized page that could list sharing services for travellers. I would avoid adding individual listings for Airbnb because 1) They are temporary 2) There are just too many of them 3) if we start adding Airbnb services we would have to add other similar services like Couchsurfing which would flood our articles with listings. As for Uber, I believe we can just mention if Uber is available in a particular city. Cheers, IBAlex (talk) 07:45, 27 May 2016 (EDT)

Cannot edit my own user page[edit]

Hi I am trying to edit my user page while logged in. I have just created an account so that might be the issue. Error is "This action has been automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed. If you believe your action was constructive, please inform an administrator of what you were trying to do. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: Dark Tower" Is there anyway this can be fixed?

--Wandering Roman (talk) 03:51, 26 May 2016 (EDT)

Hi Wandering Roman, thank you for reaching out here. I've added a test message on your user page just now. Seems okay to me. Can you please try again (please blank my test message) now and let us know if you still have this error? Thank you! --Binbin (talk) 04:19, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Sorry to say that it is still happening. Though I think there is a problem with the back end of the site. Have a look at the Abuse Log and you will see other people are having similar problems. http://wikitravel.org/en/Special:AbuseLog
Thanks for your help. Its very fast.
--Wandering Roman (talk) 04:24, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Looking at the log more closely looks like it was miss-configured and that this has been a reoccurring problem since 2012, though in 2012 the problem was occurring under the filter named The Beaver. You may want to contact IBobi, the administrator to look at the filter list as from what I have read it can only be fixed by admin/bureaucrat groups on WikiTravel
--Wandering Roman (talk) 04:52, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Hi, are you trying to add a certain link to your user page? The filter you are mentioning is blocking certain links, if you just add text you should be ok. Let us know what exactly you are trying to add ok? Thanks! Adzas (talk) 05:43, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Sorry, Adzas I am not just trying to post some basic information about my self. There are no internal or external links. Thanks for the help tho.
--Wandering Roman (talk) 06:20, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
I have disabled the Dark Tower abuse filter. Thank you for the heads-up, Wandering Roman! IBobi (talk) 15:56, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

Electric vehicle charging stations on Wikitravel/Autonomous vehicles for the future?[edit]

With these types of cars becoming increasingly popular and fully autonomous vehicles quickly becoming reality, should things such as charging stations be listed? In the future, what about autonomous pickup/dropoff locations as well? --Tyen (talk) 12:48, 2 June 2016 (EDT)

I for one hate driving with a passion especially in Los Angeles, the traffic hell of the universe. Charging stations wouldn't be useful listed on pages as they need specific address locations and individual city pages are too vague. Ibrshao (talk)

I don´t know how many of those charging stations would be available in a location, I think a mention that charging stations are available would be beneficial, but individual listings I don´t think that would be needed, it would be like posting all petrol stations in a location. Just my thought.... Adzas (talk) 10:43, 3 June 2016 (EDT)
True, posting them all would be indeed too much. --Tyen (talk) 17:18, 6 June 2016 (EDT)
Did anyone see that news article about the guy taking up three whole charging spots? IBJoel (talk) 12:59, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

New Update Today![edit]

Woohoo, hopefully everything goes smooth! Tyen (talk) 16:36, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

So far, so good I haven't noticed any problems. Has anything been reported so far? Koavf (talk) 09:42, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
Luckily not too many issues with the switch! IBJoel (talk) 18:06, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
Just a bit of spam but not too bad! Tyen (talk) 18:13, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
I do an edit, and write an edit summary, but when I try to save it a pop-up asks me to write a another, separate edit summary. Nurg (talk) 04:45, 14 June 2016 (EDT)
Well, sometimes it does it, but not always. When it happens, the heading of the pop-up is "Publish to {{SITENAME}}". Nurg (talk) 04:47, 14 June 2016 (EDT)
Shared This should definitely be posted to the Pub on Shared. That's a serious bug. Koavf (talk) 09:27, 14 June 2016 (EDT)
OK. thanks. Nurg (talk) 05:46, 15 June 2016 (EDT)

Space travel[edit]

When it becomes available at what price point will you partake in space travel. Not the near earth orbit/ vomit comet stuff but actually leave the atmosphere to the moon type stuff. 10 thousand? 20 thousand? Ibrshao (talk)

Honestly, I can't even handle rollercoasters, so I'm not sure how well I'd do when pulling the Gs of space flight. And I mean, there's enough stuff on the planet I need to see IBJoel (talk) 14:02, 9 June 2016 (EDT)
I think once the technology allows the cost to be more reasonable, I'll be willing to spend 1k Tyen (talk) 13:51, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

If you were stranded alone on any island in the world, which island would you want it would be?[edit]

Imagine all islands are now deserted, left only with the remaining amenities left behind by its former dwellers. (think zombie apocalypse) IBrobin (talk) 13:39, 16 June 2016 (EDT)

I'd have to go with the old standard: Hawaii. Lots of rain, lots of sun, great views. I can think of worse places to spend the rest of my life (although hopefully a few other people can stop by, so it's not so lonely haha). IBJoel (talk) 17:14, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
Judging by google earth, Anuta island (part of the solomon islands) looks pretty cozy! Tyen (talk) 19:19, 20 June 2016 (EDT)
The Americas please!!!!!! Ibrshao (talk) 17:45, 21 June 2016 (EDT)

[edit]

I just want to ask - what is the criteria for the banner photographs and what they can be of for the articles on Wikitravel? The main thing I noted was a banner photo of the wrong place, as I noted on the talk page! Wetter88 (talk) 12:17, 21 June 2016 (EDT)

Banners Wetter88, there are no hard and fast rules, except for the size and ratio of the photo. It's best to choose something engaging and illustrative and those can change over time if someone finds a better one. Koavf (talk) 16:00, 21 June 2016 (EDT)
I noticed that the banner picture on the Woking article wasn't in Woking, so I was wondering whether this meant it was invalid as it was the wrong place! Wetter88 (talk) 02:47, 22 June 2016 (EDT)
Hi, you're right, the Woking banner is wrong. We will create a new corrected one very soon (unless you want to try and create a new one). Thanks, GiulioC (talk) 05:02, 22 June 2016 (EDT)
Accuracy It's definitely better to have a photo that really represents the place you're going. Personally, I'm not very hung up on it, especially if the photo is of somewhere nearby or comparable. This example is just a busy train station--honestly, I don't think anyone will be disappointed if he gets to Woking and this scene isn't there. Koavf (talk) 09:53, 22 June 2016 (EDT)

Fitness Around the World[edit]

I'm US-based, and (especially in California) we have a major fitness sub-culture. Weightlifting, yoga, running, and the outdoors are all very big here. I was wondering about the fitness cultures of other countries and how those display themselves. Like here, running and physique are definitely the major areas, then probably yoga. What about Europe? Asia? How do different countries express their physicality? IBJoel (talk) 17:51, 21 June 2016 (EDT)

I like the British way-- http://www.slate.com/articles/life/fitness/2011/01/fitness_for_foreigners.html Ibrshao (talk) 17:57, 21 June 2016 (EDT)
Interesting article, to be sure! IBJoel (talk) 17:01, 22 June 2016 (EDT)