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Template talk:Welcome

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So, have I mentioned that I find this welcome template very impersonal? Opening your user talk page to respond to a welcome message only to find out that the welcomer only typed in 10 characters seems like a let down. We don't have so many people using Wikitravel that we need this kind of quick welcome. --Evan 11:22, 8 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Do you have better alternatives? I find it a very good way of giving newbies 10-odd links that they might not otherwise easily find, and I make a point of adding a custom note at the end. Jpatokal 08:11, 9 Oct 2005 (EDT)
Maybe using {{subst:welcome}} would be better? Gives all the ease of adding a template message (plus custom note), without the source-level brevity of {{welcome}}. --Evan 11:19, 16 Dec 2005 (EST)

Any objections to changing this to have the text from Wikitravel:Welcome_message instead? It's shorter and less Wikipedia-centric. Jonboy 14:51, 29 March 2006 (EST)

Without any objections, I'm going ahead. Jonboy 07:49, 3 April 2006 (EDT)

Two changes[edit]

I changed the "specialize your experience" phrase because I thought it was a little hard to understand. I also changed "wiki community" to "wiki software", since the wiki markup is more of a software thing than a community or culture thing. I'm not married to either change, but I thought it'd be worth a try. --Evan 20:07, 18 September 2006 (EDT)

Optional comment[edit]

I've added (hopefully correctly) code to allow you to include a personalized comment immediately after the "welcome" statement. For example, you could type

{{subst:welcome|Thanks for your contributions to [[Paris]].}} - ~~~~

and the first line would read

Hello! Welcome to Wikitravel. Thanks for your contributions to Paris.

followed by the rest of the usual helpful links, and your signature. I think this is a more natural place to put this kind of comment (compared to the end), which makes it easy to turn these boilerplate greetings into something more personal. - Todd VerBeek 12:37, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

I think that's great... I was thinking though, is it possible to take it even a step further and have it include their username? Hello XXX... – cacahuate talk 23:22, 6 May 2007 (EDT)
I'm a little late, but it looks a little corny to have the PAGENAME template included. I like to greet users as soon as I see them make their first edit and then move on to what I was doing beforehand. Now, occasionally people will respond to my welcome and I'll respond to any comments or questions, but it looks a little tacky from the point of view that these people are so lazy they won't type the five or six letters in my user name to address me personally, but they'll include this template.
If we really want to name option I say creating a field like Todd did so when someone puts a value in the field it'll display as: Hello Frank! -- Sapphire(Talk) • 04:20, 12 May 2007 (EDT)
Whatever works! I like to use the welcome template, but would like to be able to add their name. I'm not sure what Todd did that you're referring to, can you explain? Maybe that will work too. – cacahuate talk 18:35, 12 May 2007 (EDT)
Ah, I see what you're talking about. Only problem is it's inserting the name in the wrong spot (Hello! Welcome to Wikitravel. Username.). So that needs fixin if we go that route. but personally I think it's easier to just have PAGENAME included... then you can welcome 25 users quickly, copying and pasting, without having to type |name for each one. And Todd's code can then stay where it is, and be used as he intended it (for adding in an additional sentence). But if you don't like it, I'm ok with it if you want to remove PAGENAME. No worries. – cacahuate talk 18:07, 13 May 2007 (EDT)
I've updated the template. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 18:12, 13 May 2007 (EDT)
P.S. To address users type: ", Foo" for the first option field. If you want to customize the template further type: {{subst:Welcome|, Frank|Thanks for creating X article}}. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 18:14, 13 May 2007 (EDT)
"P.S." Maybe next time you decide to fundamentally change the behavior of a template in active use (swapping parameters around), you might want to let people know about it in advance. Some of us don't like looking like fools who can't even type a coherent welcome message. [1] - Todd VerBeek 19:16, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

OK, I'm a little calmer now, so how about we talk about this? The template can be coded so that, rather than just dumping "{{PAGENAME}}" into the message, it actually types the PAGENAME into the message. It works on the same principle that {{subst:welcome}} works on, substituting the value instead of just a reference to the template. That would save us from having to manually type their name (and a comma and space), and best of all, it avoids creating a second parameter and jumbling up the order they have to be typed in. The only catch is that it only works when the template is properly subst-ed. If someone just types {{welcome}} (which they shouldn't do, but inexperienced users might) the new user's name doesn't show up at all, just the PAGENAME code. As far as I can tell from my research, there isn't a solution to this glitch in the current version of Mediawiki. - Todd VerBeek 20:37, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

There's a problem with your initial changes too, which kind of drove me nuts too, so I understand where you were coming from. I'd say create two alternative templates: First, revert this one to its previous form, then create a second template with your optional parameter.
The problem with the alternative parameter is sometimes I greet people who haven't even made an edit so what's there to talk about? Nothing. So when I subst: the template the showed up as:

:Hello! [[Wikitravel:Welcome, newcomers|Welcome]] to [[Wikitravel:About|Wikitravel]]. {{{2|}}}

Which has the same effect as the PAGENAME template. If a user decides to respond/finally edit then they might think 'What the f*** is that?'. So would a two template thing solution be workable? I'd say X the PAGENAME template idea from both templates, then re-edit the page if you want to greet them by name. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 20:58, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

I'm not quite understanding what the original problem of having PAGENAME in the template is. It makes it more personal, saves us from having to type in the person's name... is there any reason NOT to have it there? Sorry if I'm missing something, but can you explain Sapphire? – cacahuate talk 21:28, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

Oh, do you mean then if they edit their page it shows PAGENAME? Sorry, just got what Todd was referring to. Then I like Todd's suggestion of altering the code so that it dumps the name and remains there. Or if you put {{subst:PAGENAME}} in the template, would that work? I'd actually really like it to be there somehow, without having to type it each time. – cacahuate talk 21:32, 13 May 2007 (EDT)
Yeah, my problem is if the user clicks "edit" he/she will see the PAGENAME template, plus if I don't add a personalized message then Todd's extra parameter displays as {{{2|}}} in the edit window. It just doesn't look right to me and somewhat tacky. Let's turn back the clock ante-bellum on this template and if the optional parameters are really needed create Template:WelcomeAlt. I say leave this template alone because it's much easier to use without all the bells and whistles. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 23:09, 13 May 2007 (EDT)
Well I tried a couple things to make subst:PAGENAME work, so that no funky code shows up later... but with my limited knowledge it didn't work. If you or Todd can sort it out, I'd love that. Or if not, then I suppose I'll live. – cacahuate talk 02:41, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, the "{{{1|}}}" that shows up if you don't include a parameter looks a bit odd, but since it's small and doesn't betray its purpose (like "{{PAGENAME}}") I figure it's pretty harmless. Apologies to anyone who's bothered by it. (By the way, if you include a blank parameter - e.g. {{subst:welcome|}} - the code disappears. Maybe a more experienced template coder than I could get rid of it without that hack.) I've created a Template:Welcomeplus that does a complete subst of PAGENAME as long as you type it in as "{{subst:welcomeplus}}" rather than "{{welcomeplus}}", and also accepts an optional opening comment. So if you want to revert this to the no-features version, that's OK. - Todd VerBeek 12:27, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

Ok, I've removed the personalization parameter, but retained the PAGENAME template based on Todd's experiments. So if you use this template, it will welcome the user by his/her username, but there are no additional bells and whistles. As Todd notes above, if you want to leave a personalized message use the template he created. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 20:35, 16 May 2007 (EDT)
Awesome, good compromise! – cacahuate talk 21:18, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

links overload[edit]

We give 9(!) links to every newcomer we welcome.

Do they really need all of them? Can we make a poll among recently welcomed users to find out which of these links they found really useful, and which they would rather not receive on their day 1 at Wikitravel (as they are distracting and not to the point)? --DenisYurkin 17:32, 3 March 2009 (EST)

I'm ambivalent. I'm always inclined towards simplifying things, especially when it comes to trying to help new users get started, but I do think the links in this template have been well distilled to the most important/useful. I tend to think the bigger problem here is that our help articles are not well integrated with each other—we could really use a rationalization of these articles. For example, it would seem natural to include Wikitravel:Tips for new contributors on the Wikitravel:Welcome, newcomers page, rather than fragment the information across two pages. Anyway, if we were to cut any out, I'd take out the pub link (it's usually better that people first look elsewhere for information, and there's already a link to it in the left sidebar). --Peter Talk 19:29, 3 March 2009 (EST)
As for me, not so sure on Pub--toolbox doesn't get any attention, and it's unreal to expect a user can easily discover it there once he needs any help. However, if he reads somewhere he should refer to the Pub, I think he'll find his way--for sure it's not his User Talk page where he will refer to in the first place seeking for a link to the pub.
Anyway, I second your idea on merging several newcomer-oriented articles. I also thought of merging some of Wikitravel:How to describe yourself, Wikitravel:User page help and Wikitravel:How to create a user account. --DenisYurkin 18:43, 4 March 2009 (EST)

merge this with template:welcomeplus?[edit]

I wonder if there's any way to merge functionality of this template with the parameter-expanded Template:WelcomePlus? Haven't we got more Mediawiki experts in the recent years to accomplish that? ;-) --DenisYurkin 03:57, 31 January 2010 (EST)

Of course there is. You simply need to use a #if construction to see if the parameter is blank or not. You can see an example in Template:Routebox. LtPowers 09:04, 31 January 2010 (EST)
Hmm, perhaps not the most transparent of examples. The syntax is as follows: {{#if:{{{parametername|}}}|value if parameter exists|value if parameter doesn't exist}}. (Note that {{{parametername|}}} returns the parameter value if it exists, which the #if will evaluate as true; it returns nothing (the text after the pipe) if the parameter doesn't exist, which the #if will evaluate as false.) So for this purpose I think {{#if:{{{1|}}}|{{{1}}}}} will work. LtPowers 09:13, 31 January 2010 (EST)
Thanks! It looks good, but sources are still with {{{...}}} stuff: [2]. What do you think? --DenisYurkin 17:22, 31 January 2010 (EST)
I don't think that's solvable. Absent having two templates, of course. LtPowers 20:01, 31 January 2010 (EST)

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