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Talk:Sydney

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[edit] Sydney Districts

The current consensus on what suburbs and areas belong in which districts, and what suburbs or areas have sufficient content to warrant their own articles can be found at

Talk:Sydney/Districts

If you wish to discuss any districts, please start a discussion below, and update the index once a consensus has been reached. If you are adding information on new areas or suburbs, please just insert them into the index.

The discussions that led to the current consensus are archived here:

[edit] Sydney vs Sydney (New South Wales)

I didn't think the disambiguating NSW was necessary -- this is by far the most famous Sydney in the world. -- Evan 18:56, 29 Oct 2003 (PST)

[edit] NSW South-Eastern?

I think that Sydney should be labelled as the capital of the eastern state, not South-Eastern state (victoria).

A quick look at a map of Australia reveals that there are three south-eastern states on the continent.... The usage in this article is merely generalised in order to give a location. It doesn;t necessarily imply that there is only ONE SE state! Pjamescowie 00:52, 25 Apr 2005 (EDT)

[edit] Walking tour

That walking tour is enormous -- it looks like an itinerary to me, not part of the main page. I will make it so soonish if there are no good reasons not too. Hypatia 22:29, 7 Feb 2006 (EST)

Now at Walking tour of Sydney. Some of the attraction listings should move into district articles from there. Hypatia 06:19, 10 Feb 2006 (EST)

[edit] Accessibility

If anyone's interested in marking venues as being wheelchair accessible, there's a good guide at http://www.accessibility.com.au/sydney/sydney.htm Hypatia 21:01, 12 April 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Gay and Lesbian

I've moved the following here for a couple of reasons:
  1. Bars belong under Drink (see Wikitravel:Where you can stick it)
  2. Specific bars belong in their district page, though it might be OK to mention one or two 'landmark' establishments in the main city guide
  3. See also Wikitravel:Information for gay and lesbian travellers
  4. We also dont need to cite Wikipedia or make links of the bar names (see Wikitravel:Cooperating with Wikipedia and Wikitravel:Welcome, Wikipedians).
Thanks Maj 10:00, 28 July 2006 (EDT)

Sydney is famous for its gay community, centred on Oxford Street, and the annual Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras, which is mentioned in under "festivals". Gay and lesbian bars according to Wikipedia in Sydney include:

[edit] Harbour Circle Walk

The Harbour Circle Walk described at http://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/harbour/walking.asp might be worth a mention somewhere. There's probably other useful source material at that URL too... Spiv 02:59, 31 August 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Large Boat Charter

I just want to make sure there is consensus that listings to Charter Boats on Sydney Harbour are not relevant here. I'm not talking about a water taxi, or small boat, or group tours, but I just don't think we need entries for boats that need to be char need 20+ people in a group to charter them. They aren't of interest to an average traveller, and I think charter boat companies should find somewhere else to place their ads. Any contrary thoughts? --Inas 21:19, 11 September 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Climate

Sydney's climate is actually sub-tropical, and not temperate - according to climate definitions. London is temperate! However, I can see it is probably a little confusing to the traveller, that may not want to bother with climatic definitions, and may (mistakenly) expect that sub-tropical means that you can comfortably hit the beach in June. Climate is an important travel topic for Sydney. If people are coming to Sydney for the beaches and a suntan, then its no use coming in the clear and warm spring days of September. The latest version with temps to the first decimal place, and referenced also seems too wikipedia-ish. --Inas 18:03, 4 November 2008 (EST)

[edit] District map

I've also had a go at a rough map of districts. There's a draft here on picasaweb [1] and I'd be interested in comments before having a go at a polished district map for the main article. --Ronaldo123 02:05, 27 January 2009 (EST)

In general, I think we need to just have one final go of saying where the districts are, before we draw the map. Especially Inner/Outer West boundary. Hills District can't really include everything North of the Harbour and west of the North Shore. Ryde and Macquarie Park can't be grouped into either region. Is Parramatta dot, or a region? It can probably take in most of the area between Olympic Park and Westmead, making inner west everything west of Olympic Park, and Outer West everything west of Westmead. As far as the map goes, I think whatever we develop has to be in SVG, because it is going to need to be changed. I dno't think a bitmap background is going to work. --Inas 17:06, 27 January 2009 (EST)
Thanks for the quick feedback. Agreed that SVG is the preferred format .. I uploaded a JPG just to kick off discussion. This first map had its boundaries drawn along the lines of the district descriptions in the main article, finessed by descriptions in wikipedia and the NSW Govt Metro Strategy [2]. The Inner West's western boundary approximates MR3 (King Georges Rd, etc), although I did consider MR5 (Fairford Rd, etc) as an alternate. Anything west of this would be difficult to defend in reality. The Hills/North Shore boundary is going to be difficult, if not impossible. Perhaps a softer alternative to hard lines would be better suited to avoid constant arguments? I'm inclined to fancy a centre-based instead of district-based map, although this is probably a backward step given the need to somehow get Sydney's districts into a useful grouping for travellers. The NSW Govt concept along this line is clever [3]. Overall, we've got ten districts on this map which I personally think is too many, but consider this gives the best chance for a consensus. There probably are some important centres which are missing and can be added later. Here's an idea of how to soften the boundaries [4]

--Ronaldo123 20:56, 27 January 2009 (EST)

I have to say, I like the look of it. But, I think it is probably just wimping out. We are just making it fuzzy so we don't have to make an absolute decision. People are always going to be wondering where to put that attraction or listing, because we haven't decided absolutely on what district is where. You have missed Sydney/Northern Districts from your map. It just can never be right to put North Ryde/Macquarie Park/Macquarie uni in the Sydney/Hills District, and this is a destination for many travelers. (Although maybe we get rid of Hills District altogether as a district, and merge into Sydney/North Western which includes Ryde/Macquarie/Hills? I also think we need another Sydney/Hawkesbury district. I also think Richmond (New South Wales) and Windsor (New South Wales) don't deserve their own articles, they can be merged. What to call that district? Could they be in a Hawkesbury district as well, or does that make it too long a skinny east/west? I don't think it is right to put Wisemans Ferry in Western. --Inas 21:49, 27 January 2009 (EST)
The fuzzy one is probably what most Sydneysiders carry around in their head as their concept of Sydney's districts, but as you say it doesn't really work for Wikitravel, so we have to make functional boundaries for our districts. Regarding Sydney/Northern Districts, that wasn't one I was familiar with, but I suppose it could be incorporated by chopping off a bit of the North Shore. It doesn't really get much of an entry though - are we sure it needs to stay as a separate district or as you say merged into a more general Sydney/North Western, which is probably more logical for our purposes. Richmond/Windsor should be merged as you say - but this isn't so much a district of Sydney as "satellite" towns which should probably also include Camden. Ronaldo123 08:41, 29 January 2009 (EST)
afterthought ... Hawkesbury (New South Wales) would make a good fit as a region, not district of Sydney Ronaldo123 08:46, 29 January 2009 (EST)
Okay, lets say we merge Hills and Northern into North Western. As you say, if in the future the articles are overflowing with attractions, nothing is unchangeable. Although I agree Camden/Richmond have things in common - once we try and fit it into the wikitravel template, we will have two articles within an article. Two Get In sections, two Get Around sections, two Sleep sections. We may as well have two separate and smaller articles. Its not as if people are going to visit Camden and Richmond in one "trip". What do you think of my idea of Parra being a region between Inner West and Outer West, i.e between Olympic Park and Westmead. Strathfield essentially being the last western suburb in the inner west, and including Auburn/Lidcobe,Granville, Harris Park, Flemington etc in the Parramatta district? Also, what do you think of the Forest area? Have a look at the Sydney/Northern Beaches article, to see how the division between the beachside suburbs and the "Forest" suburbs is really ugly. --Inas 17:42, 29 January 2009 (EST)
I meant to say that Camden and Richmond/Windsor just fit as "satellite towns" as the main Sydney article already does. They wouldn't fit on the map anyway, so they can fit there or through other regional articles pointing to their own separate (albeit small) articles. I agree with your Parra suggestion above, making that a district between Inner and Outer west. I tend to think Forest can just be a grouping either with Northern Beaches or the North Shore (where the defining line has Beacon Hill as the most inland part of Northern Beaches, along the lines in my original map [5]; it isn't particularly worthy of its own region). I should have some time next week to redo the Parra boundary, then if it looks OK will have a go at a SVG version. Would you also think it good to have a mini-map for each district? Ronaldo123 03:50, 30 January 2009 (EST)
Here's a version of the map with revised boundaries. [6] It's a link to the png version but it's all ready for SVG. I'd appreciate as much feedback as possible to get a big load of fixes for the first release version for the article. Ronaldo123 00:48, 12 February 2009 (EST)
I'm happy with that for a first pass at districts and areas. It includes places like Newtown and Stanmore in Inner West, rather than Southern, which I think is the right place for them. I think the map still needs a little work to tidy it up. I think we may need an outer limit, rather than the outer districts disappearing to infinity. Still, the sooner we get a first draft up in svg, the sooner we can start improving it. --Inas 21:14, 15 February 2009 (EST)
Trying to make sure everything has a home, and started on Talk:Sydney/Districts. Let me know what you think. I still have difficulty with finding a home for Canada Bay area, and also for Wisemans Ferry to Windsor, and Brooklyn to to Berowra. I can't seem to think of Canada Bay as either Parra or the Inner West. Can't think of Wisemans Ferry as Outer West, and can't think of Brooklyn or Berowra as the North Shore. Don't think we are completely there yet. --Inas 19:17, 23 February 2009 (EST)
I've put back the Northern Districts and Hills pages. They are separate areas and the North West page was completely dominated by the Hills area - with nothing in there except the new rail line and Macquarie Centre. We may as well call the Hills District that because that's its official name, not the "North West". The Northern Districts area has plenty of restaurants, accommodation, the Lane Cove National Park, parks, etc. - there's plenty there for a separate page. I don't appreciate not being consulted and the changes just merged. JRG 07:46, 27 February 2009 (EST)
Inas - Canada Bay is definitely inner west; Wiseman's Ferry can go under Hills or Hawkesbury. JRG 07:47, 27 February 2009 (EST)
I only had a day or two before you reverted it, in which time, I added all the information you mention above. Give me a break please! During that time I also produced a region map for New South Wales, merged Sydney/East Sydney and produced a suburb district listing for at Talk:Sydney/Districts, work which now needs to be redone. Talk about not consulting, who did you consult before reverting the changes? I discussed it here for a momth. Did you discuss it before reverting? It is just as valid to call Ryde, Epping, Carlingford, and Baulkham Hills the same district, as it is to call Bankstown, Liverpool and Campbelltown part of the same district, as it is to call Blacktown, Fairfield and Penrith part of the same district. You say that the official name is Hills, and then proceed say we should include areas that aren't part of the Hills. Anyway, I don't really care what the districts are. I just want to agree on some districts, that don't miss areas and suburbs, so we can start building on it with maps, and articles, and not have the districts stagnate like they have for the past couple of years. --Inas 22:16, 27 February 2009 (EST)
It is not "Hills" - it is "The Hills District". Please give it the right name. For your information, I was working on the NOrthern Districts area to improve coverage and expand it. I haven't had much time at the moment to work on this, I was hoping that people would let me increase the changes. The area is far too big to keep on one page. At least give me the chance to expand on it - it's a natural progression that as the pages get bigger you will split them off and create new ones. Sydney is one of the biggest cities in the world in terms of geographical areas, so it's only right that we increase the number of areas. JRG 21:12, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
Again, it is no bigger the other Sydney districts. Can you please define the district accurately? It is more than just the Baulkham Hills LGA? I agree that starting with larger districts to get content and direction, and the split smaller ones as required by the content. Neither of these articles have the content to justify a split currently. At the moment Northern Districts has no content. Hills has very little real content, mostly fruit shops in Dural and so on. Not really useful to the traveller. --Inas 21:20, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
It is probably worth reading back through the prior discussion, and also reading Wikitravel:Geographical hierarchy#Districts. The idea is that in making districts for Sydney, we make sure we leave no gaps (including all suburbs), make an understandable division, and ensure each article has content. We don't want to be constrained by political and local government boundaries.
I am coming around to the opinion that where we use the names of political areas, that we should avoid using them differently to their actual administrative definitions. --Inas 23:58, 17 May 2009 (EDT)

[edit] East Sydney / Northwestern Sydney

Commencing redistricting as per discussions above. Any issues with the changes, or further discussion, please raise them here. I'll be implementing over the next week or so from now. --Inas 01:53, 23 February 2009 (EST)

The changes I made have been largely reverted by User:JRG. Any futher comments on the preferred districts are welcome. I'm certainly hoping after 2 years of waiting to get Sydney districts right, that it can be implemented with discussion, and not editing and reverting edits. --Inas 21:56, 27 February 2009 (EST)
The hard work put in over the long term to build a solid consensus and a careful districts hierarchy for Sydney has been a model of proper wiki practice and an impressive amount of work. JRG's reverting of this work without even so much as acknowledging the work done on building consensus, and without discussing his own changes is baffling to me, and a clear violation of the core principle of how Wikitravel works. Accordingly, I have rolled back his edits. If he would like to see things changed, discuss, do not edit war. --Peter Talk 23:31, 27 February 2009 (EST)

[edit] Using LGA's as district boundaries

I'm considering again whether we want to choose political boundaries or Wikitravel boundaries for districts. Although using Local Government Areas as the basis for boundaries would provide us with some oddly organised districts, not necessarily in the best interest of the traveller at least we won't have an issue with any ongoing debates as to which suburbs are part of which districts, even if we end up merging several LGA's into one Wikitravel district. Again, if you have just been a lurking on the Sydney districts discussion, now is a good time to jump in and give your opinion. For those not familiar with Sydney Local Government areas, you can see a map here [7] and see Penrith and Campbelltown here [8]

Three reasons why using LGA's is good:

  1. No arguments about what goes where - every suburb and area has its place. Mapping the districts is easy. If you use terms like the Northern Beaches, Eastern Suburbs, Inner West, it is never going to be 100% certain what goes where.
  2. Each LGA has its own website, do it is easy enough to link to the official site for parks, swimming pools, cycle facilities etc.
  3. LGA's tend to be smaller around the city centre, and larger further out, reflecting in some way the amount of attractions and traveller facilities there

Three reasons why using LGA's is bad:

  1. They often carry the name of a suburb or a feature that can confuse. Botany Bay LGA doesn't include Brighton (in Rockdale) or La Perouse (in Randwick). Manly is a region, and a suburb, so requires disamiguation. Hornsby again, is a suburb and a very large LGA, with places nowhere near Hornsby.
  2. Many people don't know where they are or what they are called. Most Sydneysiders not in the local area wouldn't even know where the line was between Willoughby, vs North Sydney vs Mosman LGA's. Again, with Kogarah, Hurstville and Rockdale LGA's. All locals will know the Western Suburbs, South West, Northern Beaches, etc Not many would didn't live in the area could tell you whether Narrabeen was in Warringah, Manly or Pittwater. Everyone could tell you it was on the Northern Beaches. Most are familiar with the major suburbs, but not the corresponding LGA's. As it to reinforce this point, the current districts on Wikitravel don't correspond to LGA names, except for possibly Sydney/Sutherland Shire and Sydney/Parramatta.
  3. LGA's split suburbs, areas, and other features into different districts. Gladesville is half in Hunters Hill and half in Ryde. Forest Lodge best grouped with Sydney Uni, rather than Leichhardt etc.

Again, what do you think? --Inas 22:51, 2 March 2009 (EST)

From my purely ignorant viewpoint (I haven't even so much as visited Australia), it would seem that the biggest benefit of using the LGAs would be to have ready-made and exact borders for the districts. Personally, since the administrative boundaries are not widely known nor used by Sydneysiders, I would prefer to see ad hoc districts, provided it's possible to define precise street/geographic boundaries for each district. (Of course, this preference might have something to do with the fact that I won't be a part of the defining effort!) --Peter Talk 23:16, 2 March 2009 (EST)

[edit] Yellow Pages

The Sydney Yellow Pages local directories are..

  • Manly, Warringah, Pittwater Districts
  • St George, Cronulla, Sutherland
  • Liverpool, Fairfield
  • Blacktown, Parramatta
  • Central & Inner Eastern Suburbs
  • North Shore, Pymble
  • Inner West
  • Hills District
  • Western Region

If we wanted to use those, then we would obviously separate City and East. Southern goes into either Inner East or West as far south as St George. City gets split into more or less current regions, and we have 9 remaining regions, already split for us courtesy of Sensis.

Again, we could always further split if content is overflowing..

Comments? --Inas 00:08, 18 May 2009 (EDT)

  • I'd use the categories that we have now but divide into a number of "zones" (with the coloured labels I have used elsewhere) and in some cases don't use a page for the particular zone but have a number of sub-zones each with their own page. My suggestions are for zones (with sub-zones in brackets) which I think reflect each zone's importance for travellers:
    • Central Sydney (CBD, The Rocks, Darling Harbour, Haymarket & Chinatown, East Sydney)
    • Eastern Suburbs
    • Inner West
    • Northern & North-Western Suburbs (North Shore, Northern Beaches, Hills District)
    • Southern Suburbs (Southern Sydney (this needs a better name, but St George is too narrow), Sutherland Shire)
    • Outer Sydney (Hawkesbury (ie. North West, incorporate Richmond & Windsor into this), Outer West, South West)
I'd leave SOP, Parramatta, Bondi and Manly as "Other Destinations". They're too important as tourist destinations not to be. Maybe under each zone put where they are. How about a "Sydney Harbour" page too? Sydney has enough attractions on its harbour to warrant a completely separate page.
The names would be up for changing of course, but my understanding from doing a bit of reading is that this is how Wikitravel works. Only a few big zones with lots of smaller pages underneath. This is markedly different to how I have approached things in the past but I'm convinced this is a better way to go than make big zones of cities for each little part. That way when pages get too big they can just expand.
What do you think? JRG 09:29, 2 June 2009 (EDT)
I see your concept, and it appeals to me. I started down this path when I divided the regions into "suburban", and "central". I'd like to have a go at seeing how it would end up, so I apologise if I get down to the grit before accepting the big picture.. I also apologise because I'm now leaning towards a more precise geographical classification - in that when we use a name, we should try and use it correctly, otherwise we will be forever fixing up changes made by Wikipedians who have got lost, and it is always hard to argue with someone who is right.
So, where would Strathfield to Parra end up?
Fairfield, Liverpool, Bankstown, are they outer, South West? Flemington? Inner?
Are we still going to put Mosman and the Zoo in the same article as Hornsby, North Shore? Hornsby is further out than Bankstown, are we going to call Hornsby North Shore, Palm Beach Northern Beaches, and Bankstown Outer? I can see some people possibly taking issue with this.
Where does Lakemba,
I would say Chatswood north is a very distinct from Chatswood south, north having natural attractions, walks, bush, and south having commercial, and much more tourist interest, especially along military road, north Sydney, Milsons Point, etc?
What about Ryde, North Parra River, Putney, Gladesville? I assume Northern, but sub-zone?
What about Davidson, Belrose, Garigal National Park? Northern Beaches? Doesn't really fit..
Lane Cove National Park? North Shore? Northern?
I agree Windsor and Richmond should be merged - is Hawkesbury the Best name? Wisemans Ferry? Hawkesbury too? Brooklyn? Berowra? Not North Shore surely?
Ku-ring-gai?
I agree attractions like SOP, Bondi Beach, Parra need their own articles, but they could be listed as sub-zones too, couldn't they rather than other destinations? That way people might look at Bondi, and see they can visit Bronte, and Watsons Bay in a trip.
I agree Sydney Harbour Islands could one day be an article, but at the moment, it is essentially living in a section of the Sydney article, and it seems happy for now, so I'd suggest leaving it be until we get the rest of the stuff sorted..
Overall, I think we have East sort of under control - we need to decide the boundary between East and Central, and East and South.
South looks good, Zetland, Airport to the Georges, Sutherland Shire forms south. Excludes the La Perouse Peninsular which is East. Includes Kurnell, etc. Boundary on the west? Hurstville north to the cooks river, after than it is west or central?
Hills? What are the boundarys..
Sydney central is still a mess..
If we define Central Sydney as the LGA (city of Sydney) it roughly corresponds to what we have now..
The City of Sydney defines the zones as
  • CBD - currently Sydney/City - This sounds right..
  • Chinatown - currently Sydney/Haymarket - This sounds right too..
  • Darling Harbour - currently Sydney/Darling Harbour Matches.
  • East Sydney and Darlinghurst - currently Sydney/East Sydney - a little confusing that we use East Sydney in a different way
  • Glebe, Forest Lodge and Broadway - current Sydney/Inner West, - but grouping this area walking distance form the City, with Strathfield and Canada Bay does travellers a disservice, IMO.
  • Kings Cross and Surrounds - currently East Sydney, this sort of fits to me, maybe Inner East is better, if uncommon..
  • Newtown and Erskineville - East Sydney - even though this is south,
  • Oxford Street and Paddington - we include Paddington in the Eastern Suburbs currently..
  • Pyrmont - this is in Darling Harbour - probably okay from a traveller perspective, but will distress the geographically minded..
  • Redfern, Cleveland Street and Waterloo - currently East Sydney - this could really be grouped with Surry Hills?
  • Surry Hills - East Sydney?
  • The Rocks and Circular Quay - We have the Rocks, Circular Quay is part of the Sydney/City.
We also need to find a home for Moore Park, and Centennial Park, which are really inside this boundary too. I can see all these areas as being of interest to travellers. Ultimo is with Broadway. Rushcutters Bay is currently pushed into Eastern Suburbs. The city of Sydney group Wooloolooo with Kings Cross, when they have very different personalities to the traveller. --inas 20:39, 2 June 2009 (EDT)
  • I agree about geographic accuracy. The Wikipedians will have a field day otherwise, and I know how frustrating they can be with nitpicking details and obsession with doing things in a certain way - that's precisely why I stopped editing there. Anyway, can I ask what you think of my big broad zones (forgetting the subzones for a minute)? This would at least be helpful on a map of Sydney.
  • Re subzones, I know there are some gaps. The two I might suggest adding are "Lower North Shore" which would add in areas like Mosman and Neutral Bay and separate them from areas between Waitara and Chatswood, and possibly Berowra (which I would put in "Upper North Shore". There's really no other place to put it. The other one would be "Canterbury-Bankstown" which would do all those suburbs which aren't south west or greater west, but are a bit closer. Greater West can include anything west of Strathfield - it's a big area but there really isn't anything to distinguish it.
  • Re the city zone and subzones, let's start on this:
    • CBD - self explanatory - Central to Circular Quay (except for Chinatown & DH)
    • Chinatown/Haymarket (use either name) - self-explanatory
    • Darling Harbour - self explanatory.
    • East Sydney - as you say. This area would be Wooloomooloo, Elizabeth Bay, Potts Point, Kings X, Darlinghurst, Taylor Square, Paddington and Moore Park, and Cleveland Street. Centennial Park is definitely eastern suburbs.
    • South Sydney - Redfern, Waterloo, Surry Hills, Chippendale. Not much here for tourists.
    • Pyrmont - I agree with you and would add a new subzone (including Pyrmont, Ultimo, Broadway, Chippendale etc. but not Glebe or Sydney Uni or Annandale).
    • The Rocks - self explanatory. I would put Circular Quay under the CBD.

Thoughts, comments? JRG 10:45, 5 June 2009 (EDT)

Okay, Inner City..

* I think Central, down to Railway Square, Capitol Square, fits with Haymarket, Chinatown better than CBD. Anything south of Goulburn (Liverpool?) St and west of Elizabeth is more aligned with Haymarket than it is with the CBD, I think.
* Star City, Powerhouse Museum, Harris St are really more closely aligned with Darling Harbour then they are with Ultimo. I know that Darling Harbour turns its back on Harris St, but Chippendale to Pyrmont Bay and Star City is a very thin zone stretching north south.
* East Sydney - We are saying that anything further along Oxford St than the end of Paddington shops and the start of Cententenial is eastern suburbs, anything closer is central. I don't like the name, though. The name East Sydney is used for the unofficial suburb that is around the Australian Museum, and it is confusing for it to go all the way out to Moore Park.
* The Rocks - well defined, good.
To avoid the geographical issues with names, perhaps we should manufacture some. Say Sydney/Centre East, Centre South, Centre West, Haymarket, Rocks, CBD, Darling Harbour?
Outer. Again, agree with the zone concept, but I think we need to think carefully about the grouping. I agree with are going to need a lower north shore. Cremorne, Mosman, and the national park areas along the foreshore are definite attractions, and putting them in the same group as Berowra is going to confuse. I agree that where the attractions are sparse, we can have larger zones. However the real challenge is covering the gaps, with Sydney's geography. The more precise we seem to get with our naming, the more gaps seem to be created. --inas 19:45, 8 June 2009 (EDT)
I like your suggestions - but can we have "City East" instead of "Centre East", etc. They're a bit artificial otherwise. What would you describe as "Centre West" or "City West"? Pyrmont/Ultimo/Chippendale? JRG 07:06, 9 June 2009 (EDT)
Okay - agree City East sounds better than Centre East. How to distinguish City West from Inner West is the question. Saying Chippendale is City West, and then Newtown is Inner West sounds confusing doesn't it? Perhaps City West isn't a good idea.
So, for the central zones. We have
* CBD - the area north to Circular Quay, and the Opera House, including the Botanic Gardens, South to Liverpool Street, West to the Western Boundary with the Rocks, and West to Western Distributor at the Rocks, and Sussex St and Darling Harbour. East to incorporate all of the Botanic Gardens and the Domain, and the Art Gallery, but not Woollomooloo. Including Cook and Philip Park, Bounded south of William St by College St,
The Rocks - North of the Cahill overpass to the west of Circular Quay. North of the Western Distributor on Kent and Sussex. incorporating Walsh Bay.
I think we are essentially agreed on that?
Okay, City East... West bounded by the CBD. East of Botanic, Domain, College, Wentworth. South to include the end of the Moore Park Precinct as far as Cleveland. East as far as the end of Paddington Shops on Oxford, not including Wollahra or Centennial. Include Elizabeth Bay, Potts Point, Darlinghurst, Taylor Square, Kings Cross, but not Rushcutters Bay. Include Crown St Surry Hills, Forveuz st East of Central.
How does that sound? Redfern isn't really attraction. We could include the few things there either in City East or whatever our Southern Sydney zone name becomess?
Now more controversially..
Okay City South, West of Central, North to Liverpool, includes Chinatown, Capitol Square, Paddy's Markets, Entertainment Centre, Haymarket, Ultimo west of Harris, Chippendale, but not Glebe, not Newtown. Includes Broadway, UTS, but not Sydney Uni, not Victoria Park Pool, etc. Includes the backpackers zone, but the CBD extends to include World Square. By using City South for this area, we don't have to worry about the actual definitions of Haymarket, and it sort of corresponds to the signage around, with uses the City South signage.
More controversially still
Darling Harbour - includes King St Wharf, Cockle Bay, West of Sussex St, Darling Harbour Precinct, not the Entertainment Centre, and Ultimo East of Harris (including the Powerhouse), and Pyrmont West of Harris, including Star City. Star City, the Power House and Harbourside are all close, the Get In, Around methods are all the same..
Getting closer? --inas 00:41, 11 June 2009 (EDT)
Absolutely, I'm happy with that. Just define an eastern boundary for City East that is easy to work out. What's next? JRG 07:00, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

Okay, for the wider Sydney region. Okay, lets firstly define what the outer boundary of Sydney should be. Sydney is bounded by Wollongong/Illawarra, Central Coast, Southern Highlands and the Blue Mountains. We can include/exclude Helensburgh, which is effectively more part of Sydney than of Wollongong. We can include/exclude Brooklyn, which although in Hornsby is more part of a Central Coast trip. We can include/exclude Windsor/Richmond which have the feel of separate towns, or we can go with the standard Sydney Metro area LGA's, which is consistent with our new policy of using geographical names correctly when we choose to use them. Any opinion?

We have essentially already decided that the compass points around Sydney give us the outline of our major regions, so lets go aronnd the compass, starting east, which is the easiest start.

The region there is Eastern Suburbs, it has a western boundary with City East, and a Eastern Boundary at South Head all the way to La Perouse and Bare Island along the coast. It follows the northern side of Botany Bay as far as the western side of the airport, then everything east of Southern Cross Drive as far Moore Park, where it joins with city east again. If we wanted to subdivide this district into neighborhoods, they would probably be Harbourside, from Rushcutters Bay to Watsons Bay. Bondi/Bronte, Southern Beachside suburbs, Bayside, and University/Randwick area. How does that sound as a region? --inas 00:06, 16 June 2009 (EDT)

Also, to backtrack one step, what we referred to as Sydney CBD previously, is currently Sydney City. Do we actually want to rename this as Sydney CBD? Would a name City North per preferable? --inas 00:16, 16 June 2009 (EDT)

Let's exclude Helensburgh (very north end of the Illawarra as far as I'm concerned), include Brooklyn (not really Central Coast, though if we have a separate "Hawkesbury" section it could go in there), and include Windsor and Richmond - they are now really outer parts of Sydney rather than their own towns. This is consistent with the Sydney metro area. As for the Eastern Suburbs, that sounds good. Let's just do the main articles for now, and make sub-articles (Bondi, etc will be the obvious ones). Bayside sounds a bit artificial - another name would be needed I think. As for the CBD, I think "City Centre" or "CBD" is better than "City North". JRG 02:27, 20 June 2009 (EDT)
Regarding City North, City Centre, City South. These are the general directional signs coming into the City, anywhere between central and the Quay. If we use start using that terminology, City South, City Centre... Hmmm...
Including Brooklyn in a Hawkesbury district? I just can't see that working. It must be well over an hour's drive Richmond/Windsor up to Brooklyn, must be close to 3 hours by public transport. If it doesn't go with the central coast, it will have to go wherever Berowra ends up, I think.
Okay, next around from the east, to the south. The Sutherland Shire forms such a distinct region between south of the Georges, north of Wollongong. West to Alfords Point, West to Heathcote National Park. East to the coast.
Where does south divide from West and South West. Well the council areas of St George, Hurstville, Rockdale and Kogarah are generally regarded as south. Bankstown is generally regarded as southwest. Marrickville is generally regarded as Inner West. Do you agree? A consideration here is that we would like all the airport hotels, etc to be in a single article, rather than scattered amoungst several. --inas 21:05, 22 June 2009 (EDT)
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