Talk:Sydney

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[edit] Archived Talk:Sydney discussions

I've moved these off Talk:Sydney so that people don't have to wade through old discussions to get to the current consensus. But, if you think these are open to more discussion, restart them.

[edit] Sydney vs Sydney (New South Wales)

I didn't think the disambiguating NSW was necessary -- this is by far the most famous Sydney in the world. -- Evan 18:56, 29 Oct 2003 (PST)

[edit] Larger districts

I made the districts into subpages for the following reasons:

Maybe Sydney/CBD -- although what is meant by "City" here is I think a larger area than the CBD? -- Hypatia 15:31, 14 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I also unwikified the bodies of water, Port Jackson and Parramatta River. I am doubtful about the plains being wikified too. -- Huttite 20:05, 4 Jun 2004 (EDT)

I don't think the suburbs should be wikified either, although I see Manly already has its own stub. By and large the suburbs of Sydney are too small to deserve their own pages. If the Rocks doesn't get one, Manly definitely shouldn't.

Well, maybe the Rocks should have its own page.... I would support such a move. There's certainly enough just within the Rocks for travellers to warrant a separate article AND the area is sufficiently different in character from the rest of Sydney City and the CBD to create the distinction. I strongly disagree with Hypatia re Manly (I know, as a Manly boy, I may be biased on this point....). I created the article as it stands because Manly - like Bondi - is a destination in itself, the sole and purposeful target of many a ferry trip across the harbour from Circular Quay.... I also think it will have enough to fill a decent-sized article.... Once we have finished! Pjamescowie 15:56, 14 Sep 2004 (EDT)
OK that might work, but Sydney/Northern Beaches seems to have wikified everything. I can see the case for Sydney/Manly and quite likely Sydney/Palm Beach and a few others (and perhaps some non-beach suburbs like Newtown), but I'm not sure every beach-side suburb in Sydney deserves its own page when, for example, even Paris is only divided into districts.
Perhaps talking about deserves is wrong.
I suppose my idea is to not divide too finely at the beginning. So for example, I think there is no point creating Sydney/Newtown when Sydney/Inner West doesn't exist yet. Wouldn't it be better to start filling out Sydney/Inner West and then later moving or expanding into Newtown itself? In the same way, having a reasonably complete Northern Beaches article might be a better aim than a bunch of very small articles for each suburb. At least as a beginning. -- Hypatia 04:11, 15 Sep 2004 (EDT)
Another note is the "do you sleep there" rule of thumb. A few suburbs pass this (Bondi certainly, Manly I imagine so), but I'm not sure about the Rocks. -- Hypatia 05:29, 17 Sep 2004 (EDT)

[edit] Smaller districts/suburbs

Note, please update this to reflect the consensus on Talk:Sydney/Refactoring

Discussion with User:Pjamescowie shows that the current consensus is:

Larger district articles like Eastern Suburbs and Inner West will be linked from the main Sydney page, and be districts immediately under Sydney: Sydney/Eastern Suburbs, Sydney/Inner West.

Individual suburb articles like Manly, Balmain, Kings Cross etc etc will be created when we have enough information to warrant an article on them and will also be districts immediately under Sydney: Sydney/Manly, Sydney/Balmain, Sydney/Kings Cross. However, they won't be linked from the main Sydney page. Instead, Kings Cross would be linked from Sydney/Eastern Suburbs, Manly from Sydney/Northern Beaches and Balmain from Sydney/Inner West.

So, a partial example:

[edit] NSW South-Eastern?

I think that Sydney should be labelled as the capital of the eastern state, not South-Eastern state (victoria).

A quick look at a map of Australia reveals that there are three south-eastern states on the continent.... The usage in this article is merely generalised in order to give a location. It doesn;t necessarily imply that there is only ONE SE state! Pjamescowie 00:52, 25 Apr 2005 (EDT)

[edit] Walking tour

That walking tour is enormous -- it looks like an itinerary to me, not part of the main page. I will make it so soonish if there are no good reasons not too. Hypatia 22:29, 7 Feb 2006 (EST)

Now at Walking tour of Sydney. Some of the attraction listings should move into district articles from there. Hypatia 06:19, 10 Feb 2006 (EST)

[edit] Accessibility

If anyone's interested in marking venues as being wheelchair accessible, there's a good guide at http://www.accessibility.com.au/sydney/sydney.htm Hypatia 21:01, 12 April 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Sleep entries

I thought a big city article didn't get sleep entries on the front page, but there are several at Sydney. Should these be moved to districts? Hypatia 21:42, 22 May 2006 (EDT)

Moved and a note added in comments Hypatia 09:08, 24 June 2006 (EDT)
Sleep entries seem to have returned, many with descriptions copied verbatim off the hotels' websites. I'm moving them to their districts, and removing any text that's obviously a copyvio. Spiv 10:56, 21 September 2006 (EDT)
Argh! The sleep entries are back, despite the comment in Sleep section saying that individual items do not belong there. How can we avoid misguided contributions here? Spiv 01:14, 2 November 2006 (EST)
I think Saturday morning cartoons say it best - "Destroy them!" Seriously though, sometimes people actually read and pay attention and for the most part when no one does what he/she is directed to do it's best to curse your computer and grudgingly filter the listings and explain it directly to the user the proper way to do something. Thanks for your help! -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 02:32, 2 November 2006 (EST)

[edit] More on suburbs

I'm still dubious about the current practice of starting an outline for seemingly every suburb in Sydney. Certainly, a number of suburbs do have enough infrastructure to merit an article. Sydney/Manly and Sydney/Parramatta for example. But there are over 200 suburbs in Sydney: do we really think that it's helpful to the traveller to write 200 articles about it, or even 50 articles? Compare Singapore for example, which has about the same population and is of reasonable geographical size. My own feeling is that we should concentrate on really getting the existing district articles done well before writing articles for individual suburbs. With this in mind, I'm going to re-direct some articles, for example Sydney/Newtown and Sydney/Chatswood to their respective districts. Hypatia 09:08, 24 June 2006 (EDT)

For what its worth, suburbs I'm currently dubious about: Sydney/Clovelly, Sydney/Bronte, Sydney/Mona Vale, Sydney/Woollahra, Sydney/Warriewood, Sydney/Collaroy, Sydney/Beacon Hill, Sydney/Malabar, Sydney/Chatswood, Sydney/Newtown. I can kind of see how this could go either way: most suburbs of Sydney do have a little shopping strip and probably at least one or two places to sleep. But is it to the traveller's advantage to write each of them up as an article? Other large cities don't seem to be going this way. Hypatia 09:16, 24 June 2006 (EDT)
For an idea of the size and number of Sydney suburbs, see [1], and note that that is about one sixth of the Sydney area. Hypatia 06:50, 26 June 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Gay and Lesbian

I've moved the following here for a couple of reasons:
  1. Bars belong under Drink (see Wikitravel:Where you can stick it)
  2. Specific bars belong in their district page, though it might be OK to mention one or two 'landmark' establishments in the main city guide
  3. See also Wikitravel:Information for gay and lesbian travellers
  4. We also dont need to cite Wikipedia or make links of the bar names (see Wikitravel:Cooperating with Wikipedia and Wikitravel:Welcome, Wikipedians).
Thanks Maj 10:00, 28 July 2006 (EDT)

Sydney is famous for its gay community, centred on Oxford Street, and the annual Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras, which is mentioned in under "festivals". Gay and lesbian bars according to Wikipedia in Sydney include:

[edit] Harbour Circle Walk

The Harbour Circle Walk described at http://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/harbour/walking.asp might be worth a mention somewhere. There's probably other useful source material at that URL too... Spiv 02:59, 31 August 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Oatley

This page is orphaned. I appeal to others as to where it belongs. OldPine 11:58, 2 November 2006 (EST)

Probably in Sydney/Sutherland when anyone else actually starts to care about our districts... :) Hypatia 21:53, 6 November 2006 (EST)

Except that it isn't in the Sutherland district

[edit] Southern Beaches

Is there really a district of Sydney called Southern Beaches? The current entry really only repeats information that is the the Bondi and Eastern Suburbs sections. The Cronulla beaches are usually called that, and considered part of the Sutherland Shire district. It would also make sense to entend the South Sydney district area to be as far south as the Georges River, and not stop at the Airport as specified now. That means we have the south eastern suburbs of Sydney covered in three districts. Eastern Suburbs - including Bondi, Coogee etc, South Sydney, including airport, Botany Bay, and closer in, and the Sutherland Shire, for the Cronulla beaches, etc.--Inas 19:20, 11 January 2007 (EST)

Feel free to make that change. I don't know a lot about districts south of the airport. Hypatia 19:32, 11 January 2007 (EST)
Ok, I have redirected Southern Beaches to Eastern Suburbs, since most of the info contained in there related to Bondi Beach, which is in that district. I made sure all the attractions were already referenced in the appropriate articles. I have changed South Sydney, the Southern Sydney, since South Sydney could be confused with the area that used to be the South Sydney Council area, around Redfern etc. This district is now described as going from the CBD south to include the aiport and Botany Bay. There is no page for that district yet. I have created the Sutherland Shire district page and populated it, without duplicating anything that is only in the Cronulla and Royal National Park entries. It would be nice to think that the Sutherland Shire district could be covered by that article, with just two additional ones for Cronulla and the Royal National Park, being the real areas that would be frequented by visitors, but we will see, I guess..--Inas 23:35, 11 January 2007 (EST)
Please make sure the links match the names of the articles! Also, things like "Sydney/South Sydney" are redundant, why not just "Sydney/South"? Jpatokal 01:23, 12 January 2007 (EST)
I checked the links and names again, and I can't find anywhere that I have made the mistake of the links not matching the article names. I have removed the wikified link in the By Plane section, which is the only remaining link I can find to the non-article Sydney/South Sydney. Since there is no Sydney/South Sydney in existance (unless I have made a mistake somewhere) the argument over whether it should be Sydney/South or Sydney/South Sydney is academic in this particular case. I can see an argument for keeping, say, Sydney/North Sydney, over just Sydney/North, where North Sydney is the name of district, rather than just a directional thing within a city.--Inas 03:21, 12 January 2007 (EST)
South Sydney is something of an artefact of the former South Sydney city council area, now amalgamated into the City of Sydney. I do support keeping "North Sydney" over "North", because "the North" refers to everything north of the harbour, and "North Sydney" refers to the group of suburbs immediately north of the harbour. Hypatia 07:32, 31 January 2007 (EST)

[edit] South West

Seems like there isn't a article on it yet.

[edit] Sydney Districts - Are they Working?

It seems to me that the Sydney districts still aren't working well. Much of the information on the main page relates to Sydney CBD. People continue to post accommodation and other entries on the main page, causing administrative overheads.

In my opinion - we should remove Sydney CBD as a district. We can then relocate all the information to the main Sydney page. We can then link off to other districts for people who want more information about other districts of Sydney, but make the main Sydney page packed with central Sydney goodies, rather than the half hearted page it is currently, containing some references, only a little accommodation etc?

Are there any other opinions?

Inas 21:01, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Unfortunately that's not the way we do things — cities are either districted or not, we don't do halfway houses.
Districts work rather poorly everywhere, and presently the only solution is constant vigilance. Some technological fixes are in the pipeline, but I'll let Evan say more about that... Jpatokal 22:03, 19 April 2007 (EDT)
Okay, so are we prepared to remove things like "Skate", "Museums and Galleries", and put them in the appropriate district where they belong?
Inas 01:58, 20 April 2007 (EDT)
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