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Talk:Russian phrasebook

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Still need to check my spelling and grammar on a few of the phrases. Am leaving the more complicated phrases till I can get home to my dictionary. My Russian is kind of rusty, this is great practice. Mudbrother 14:21, 16 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Sorry, haven't been able to work on this much lately. Work is really bad. Hopefully will be able to contribute again in a week or so. Mudbrother

Щ[edit]

The most common transliteration for this letter for English speakers is indeed shch, but it is not pronounced that way. It is not helpful to instruct native English speakers (such as myself) to pronounce it like harsh choice, because a native speaker attempting to do so will pronounce a sound quite unlike the Russian letter and will not be understood. As I "voiced" in an earlier edit summary, Щ is a relatively long voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative. There is no affricate. No stop. It is a difficult letter to romanize—hence the "ch" in the romanization. That "ch" does not indicate that there is an affricate in the sound—that is a common mistake that native English speakers make when pronouncing romanized Russian names.

Furthermore, this is not a difficult letter for native English speakers to pronounce, it is merely a difficult letter to know how to pronounce. If native English speakers understand what it means for the letter to be a palatalized "sh," then they will be able to pronounce the letter well. If not, they will pronounce it like an English "sh" and in context they will be understood. --Peter Talk 22:41, 11 December 2007 (EST)

I think ш is similar to sh in shot and щ is sh in sheet. Shoe is a bad example, imho --144.92.110.139 21:05, 6 October 2009 (EDT)

Public domain.[edit]

Is the Wikitravel Russian phrasebook in the public domain? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.253.103.29 (talkcontribs)

I regret to tell you that it is not. It is, as is all text on Wikitravel, automatically licensed under the terms of Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike 1.0. --Peter Talk 18:12, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

Pseudo-pronunciation[edit]

I went through and standardized all the phrase pronunciations today, which were all over the place. Few if any conformed to the Wikitravel:Pseudo-phoneticization guide, stresses were often placed on the wrong syllable, and vowel reduction was ignored.

I changed the "ы = i" transliteration/pronunciation guide to "ы = yh" because i and ы are very different sounds, and we should note this, even if non-Russian speakers will likely not be able to pronounce it. Y is the standard translation; yh is a better pseudo phoneticization to distinguish it from the "ee" sound that often follows consonants at the end of words in the English language.

I standardized all incidences of "ой" under vowel reduction (e.g., курицой) to "uy". That's not at all ideal, and I'm not sure if native English speakers will get that right. But while it is an easy noise to produce, it is not easy to convey in written form. Basically, the о reduces to schwa. The closest would be "uhy", but that would risk the pronunciation "uh-hee". --Peter Talk 20:55, 5 April 2009 (EDT)

Belatedly, I'm also using a simple "sh" for all instances of щ. As per above, if we write shch, English native speakers will likely pronounce it incorrectly. --Peter Talk 15:23, 5 February 2010 (EST)
I'm still not down with this whole pseudo-pronunciation thing (rather embarrassing since I've majored in a foreign language) but wouldn't a double ss (ssh) get the point across better? --Stefan (sertmann) talk 15:36, 5 February 2010 (EST)
I doubt the pseudo-phoneticization will make a lot of sense to non-native English speakers. But again, it's really not pronounced ssh—there's no s sound. It's just a matter of where the tip of your tongue is when you pronounce sh. I've tried to add a bit more guidance to the consonant section. Hopefully not too much, so as to be confusing! --Peter Talk 15:59, 5 February 2010 (EST)

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