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Talk:Put-in-Bay

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[edit] Data mining

Links for data mining:

Fastestdogever 21:38, 10 March 2007 (EST)

[edit] Website Address

Who ever is changing our website addreses please stop. Thank you. Grand Islander & Islander Inn Put-in-Bay —The preceding comment was added by 64.12.116.200 (talk • contribs)

I undid the edit on Put in Bay Resort Hotel, under sleep. It is a legitimate place to sleep and the Island is lacking in rooms. this has been a great addition to the Island. 2old 09:40, 29 November 2008 (EST)

Added back vandals removal od Meetings. people who travel do plan meetings, weddings, reunions so it is therfore relevant content. —The preceding comment was added by 205.188.116.200 (talk • contribs)

I've reverted your last changes. "Meetings" is not a section header used on wikitravel, and the insertion, multiple times across the page, of content about your hotel, as well as moving your listing to the top of the section, violates our Wikitravel:Don't tout policy. --Peter Talk 12:17, 29 November 2008 (EST)
It's not "my" listing and if you look back in history it was always at the top as other listings were never there to begin with. —The preceding comment was added by 205.188.116.200 (talk • contribs)
Entries are listed alphabetically, not by who got there first. Knock it off. Dguillaime 18:22, 29 November 2008 (EST)
Not true see http://wikitravel.org/en/Key_West As you can see this is not the case. Knock it off. —The preceding comment was added by 64.12.116.200 (talk • contribs)
You're making a mess of the formatting here. Aaaanyhow, Key West does indeed need some cleanup, but one random article also does not define the standards. What does is the accommodations listing policy, under "listing order". Dguillaime 02:15, 30 November 2008 (EST)

Within each subdivision, when no other standard of ordering listings is used, alphabetical order should be the norm. If another standard is used, it should be clearly stated so any new listing can be added to the appropriate place.

Another standard is being used. Now that we are clear on that, Thanks —The preceding comment was added by 64.12.116.200 (talk • contribs)

The continual changes of the hotel links in this article to what appears to be a third-party booking site violates several policies on this site, most notably Wikitravel:Don't tout and Wikitravel:External links. To the anonymous user who repeatedly makes these changes - please stop. -- Ryan • (talk) • 14:29, 30 November 2008 (EST)

Our Grand Islander and Islander in site are directed to our main site which is all of our properties. Please stop disturbing our sites and this is getting very frustrating. This is the URL we want these to point to. Thank you. PS Why would you want to blacklist www.grandislanderpib.com and our www.islanderinnpib.com sites just because we want it pointing to our main site??

Please read the policies linked above, specifically Wikitravel:External links. The site being linked to is not a web site for the hotel, it's a general Put-In-Bay reservation site, which is explicitly called out in our policies as something NOT to link to. Even if this new site is owned by the same company the Wikitravel policies are designed to prevent spamming, and redirecting official hotel/restaurant/whatever links to bucket sites is a favorite tactic of spammers. -- Ryan • (talk) • 14:44, 30 November 2008 (EST)
The hotel links are being changed to a general Put-In-Bay reservations site again. http://www.grandislanderpib.com/ is CLEARLY the home page for the Grand Islander hotel, and http://www.islanderinnpib.com/ is CLEARLY the home page for the Islander Inn. The link that they are being changed to is a general Put-In-Bay reservation site, which is not a valid primary link per Wikitravel:External links. If the hotels are using this new site, please update the http://www.grandislanderpib.com/ and http://www.islanderinnpib.com/ pages to link to this system, but that reservation link should NOT be used on Wikitravel as it violates policy. -- Ryan • (talk) • 20:08, 2 February 2009 (EST)

For what it's worth, Edgewater Investment spam has plagued Wikipedia for several years, too. See:

--A. B. 09:14, 26 May 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Restaurant listings

I'm from Cleveland and just spent this past Saturday at Put-in-Bay. I enjoyed it so much that I figured I'd spend some time cleaning this article up and adding some listings of things I enjoyed while I was there. Being a neutral third-party, I'm happy to tone down some of the shameless-sounding plugs and turn them into an honest evaluation. To those of you doing business on South Bass, you have something special--so stop fighting over customers and work together to keep giving them more cool stuff to come and see!!! That having been said, I wanted to mention that the Eat section is not sorted alphabetically, because I'm hoping I've got these in about the order they'd need to be in to split the section into Budget, Mid-range, and Splurge categories. If someone would help fill in a few more restaurants with price details to better cover the spectrum, I think we'd be able to do it. I'd like to flesh out more of the Understand, Get Around, See, Do, and Get out sections so that we can hopefully get this article up to at least Usable status. If anyone can help, that would be great! Thanks!!! Lee 19:31, 27 July 2009 (EDT)

Not to discourage anything, but I'm afraid being a wikitraveller is for the most part the job of a lone wolf, and unfortunately business owners (with the almost sole exception of User:WineCountryInn) are never interested in promoting anything but their business, even though a well developed Wikitravel guide will probably drive more traffic to the area, than most on-line advertisement they might engage in.
One thing you can do, is to check through restaurant review websites, form an opinion of the place, and make your own description of the place. Of course it's more ideal with direct experience, but wiki entries can always be changed by someone else who has such experience afterwards. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 19:46, 27 July 2009 (EDT)
Thanks, Stefan! What I was thinking was that this is a rather small island, but there are really TONS of restaurants. I just hoped that someone remembered some idea of what the prices were so we could eventually break them down--and add some other details as well, of course. I think it's totally realistic to see at least five restaurants under each of the three headings and still have missed a bunch more. Hopefully someone (preferably a neutral third-party like myself) will be interested in helping me out! Lee 20:22, 27 July 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Official Link

To the anonymous user changing the link for Put-in-Bay - see Wikitravel:External links. http://visitputinbay.com (the Chamber of Commerce tourism site) is the official link for this destination. -- Ryan • (talk) • 12:06, 1 August 2009 (EDT)

The link putinbay dot com has been for many years the link displayed in this section. While one might consider a link an official in some sense the purpose if Wiki Travel is to provide information. In comparing the two sites it is clear that the original link provides the traveler a much broader spectrum of information including entertainment schedules, history, maps and directions, airport information just to name a few. Please debate and resolve changes here rather than randomly making changes. With this in mind I have restored the link to it's orginal URL. —The preceding comment was added by 64.12.117.70 (talk • contribs)
Wikitravel:External links is extremely clear on this case:
Using only primary sources makes our guide more succinct: where there is usually one or sometimes two primary source links for any subject, there can be hundreds or thousands of secondary source links. We also avoid subjectivity and conflict. It's difficult to decide collaboratively which of the thousands of English-language newspapers, magazines, and Web sites has done the very best travel article about New York, but it's quite easy for everyone to agree that http://www.nycvisit.com/ is the official city visitor's guide.
Wikitravel talk:External links would be the place to discuss changing the site's external link policy. -- Ryan • (talk) • 17:31, 1 August 2009 (EDT)

The purpose of Wiki Travel is just that, travel. The primary role of a Chamber of Commerce is just that, commerce. The primary role of the original website that you keep changing is tourism. If you simply tale a moment to compare the two you will find one is more complete and offers much more information.

In addition, the Chamber of Commerce is a ad driven web site as they only permit members who pay dues and fees to be displayed. The original web site putinbay dot com is free to all who choose to participate at no fee therefore is a more unbiased resource for travelers. Time and time again I have read in discussions where it has been stated that web site that promote in return for fees to generate advertising revenue are not appropriate for Wiki Travel. Therefore I have restored the original link that has been in place for years. Regards. —The preceding comment was added by 64.12.117.70 (talk • contribs)

Regardless of the utility of the site you would like to add, it is outweighed by the effect of the rules established at Wikitravel:External links, as well as a general refusal to weaken that policy by making exceptions—that policy is the principal rule we use to keep a lid on spamming and business touting sitewide. If you would like to better understand the reasoning behind this policy, you can take a look over the extensive discussions at Wikitravel talk:External links. --Peter Talk 18:06, 1 August 2009 (EDT)

While a general policy may provide guidelines, there are always exceptions. When there is a poorly designed site that lacks quite a bit of information, it appears it would be in the best interest of providing an alternative resource or perhaps both. Example of this in Wiki travel may be seen here:

http://wikitravel.org/en/Catalina_Island

In this example http://www.catalina.com is not the Chamber of commerce site and in comparing the chamber site to this resource it appears we have the same situation. An alternative site provides much more information and appears as the primary resource.

and here

http://wikitravel.org/en/New_York_City

In this example the web site http://nycvisit.com then redirects to http://nycgo.com which again is not the Chamber of Commerce but a self admitted consortium of local business working together to promote the city.

This is exactly what we have in this situation. For several years putinbay dot com has been the accepted standard on this page. Now as a result of an edit, it appears to now be controversial.

Finally, while I understand Google and other search engine do not dictate how Wiki travel is operated, a simple search of Put in Bay show in each and every case all major search engines rank this web site over the Chamber due to the content and depth of the information contained. In fact Google even grants it authority status by sub indexing the pages.

Is not providing information what we are trying to do here verses promoting a restrictive organization that does not allow all the information to be passed along unless you are a paid advertiser or member? —The preceding comment was added by 205.188.117.70‎ (talk • contribs)

Our interest is in providing information on the Wikitravel page Put-in-Bay, not linking to where information can be found. You're wasting your time with these lengthy rationalizations — this is cut-and-dry. Had anyone noticed sooner that putinbay dot com was not the official site, it would have been changed sooner. If promoting your business on Wikitravel is a priority for you, I suggest contacting Internet Brands about ad rates on that sidebar to the right. Otherwise, there isn't really anything left to discuss. Gorilla Jones 09:22, 2 August 2009 (EDT)

There is no one business being promoted here. This, as the examples above are a consortium of busineses working together to promote tourism. Why rather than take a "cut-and-dry" position, do you not look at the examples cited, the websites in question and offer an opinion as to why it is approprite in the examples cited to devite from the norm but not here? —The preceding comment was added by 205.188.117.70‎ (talk • contribs)

Most people learn at an early age that "He did it, too!" is not an effective way to get out of breaking the rules. Feel free to discuss on Talk:Catalina Island or Talk:New York City about anything you think should be changed there. Gorilla Jones 09:41, 2 August 2009 (EDT)

Most people also learn that it's better to address a situation at hand than hide behind a cliche. I also noticed that you had made comments on the page there as well. Looks like your tacit approval there endorses my opinion here since you took no corrective action there in the similar situation. —The preceding comment was added by 205.188.117.70‎ (talk • contribs)

Looks like giant fluffy balls of cotton are floating in the sky, too. Gorilla Jones 09:56, 2 August 2009 (EDT)

What about http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:The_traveller_comes_first

"The traveller comes first" is an underlying principle that Wikitravellers use when making decisions about Wikitravel. The idea is that all our work should be guided towards serving the travellers that are our readers.

We make our navigation as "intuitive" as possible, in order to help readers find what they're looking for .

Wikitravel:Goals and non-goals From Wikitravel Jump to: navigation, search The mission of Wikitravel is this:

Wikitravel is a project to create a free, complete, up-to-date and reliable world-wide travel guide. Wikitravel articles should be useful for at least the following purposes:

For on-line use by travellers on the road, huddled in a late-night Internet café in some dark jungle, who need up-to-the-minute information on lodging, transportation, food, nightlife, and other necessities; For off-line use by travellers on the road sitting in a train with a subset of Wikitravel on their PDA, laptop, mobile phone, iPod or digital camera. For on-line use by travellers still planning to review destinations, plan itineraries, make reservations, and get excited about their trip; For individual article printouts, that is, for printing a list of museums or karaoke bars and putting it in your back pocket for when you need it -- or making a photocopy when someone else does; For ad-hoc travel guides, small fit-to-purpose travel books that match a particular itinerary; For inclusion in other travel books, giving up-to-date information for travel guide publishers. The web site putinbay dot com is CLEARLY a more comprehensive and information resource than the chamber of commerce site. It is open to all to participate without fee or membership. It meets the goals laid out above.

Perhaps a compromise of featuring BOTH web sites and allowing the traveler to decide on their own which resource best serves their needs. After all serving the travelers needs appears to be what we are here for.

No fluffly clouds here, its sunny clear and 86 —The preceding comment was added by 205.188.117.70‎ (talk • contribs)

Seriously: Wikitravel:External links. We're here to serve travelers by putting information on the Wikitravel page Put-in-Bay, not pointing to other places where it can be found. Go enjoy the nice day outside. Gorilla Jones 10:12, 2 August 2009 (EDT)

It's worth noting WikiPedia:Talk:Put-in-Bay, Ohio#4 years of Edgewater Investment Group (Ohio) spam on Wikipedia, where after several years of edit wars, roundabout arguments, and general bothersome-ness the site currently in question and others were all blacklisted by Wikipedia. I suggest that if the current argument continues that Wikitravel take a similar approach as this discussion is moot according to current site policies and is distracting people from creating useful travel guides. -- Ryan • (talk) • 15:38, 2 August 2009 (EDT)

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