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Talk:Perth

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This article[edit]

Is this article being maintained by Perth locals or 'wikitravellers' ??? It's pretty misleading :/

Safety[edit]

Once again after more than a year of just letting this one go I have put back the "Avoid Mirrabooka" and added the ethnic (African and Aboriginal) gang terms back in to this article. If thisAmerican tourist had of known about aboriginal gangs at Mirrabooka bus station, it's probable he would have been able to avoid the situation he found him self in and not ended up looking like this.

Also I have added a newer trend in that more buses now are coming under attacks by Aboriginal youths throwing rocks as well as a general increase in assaults on Perth buses.

Look this is not meant to be racist in anyway but rather used as a way of identifying people who may be of potential danger to a tourist similar to the Hungarian article about avoiding gypsies. Gangs of white and Asian youths also exist in Perth but these gangs tend to fight among them self and generally avoid effecting wider society. Aboriginal people in particular have many social problems that are generally no fault of their own but rather caused by the society and groups of people that they are forced to live around. Most of these problems with aboriginal and African gangs are a direct result of government mismanagement of the needs of these people and aboriginal and african people see public transport as just another government body and so it's natural that they would vent some of their frustration out in these areas.

-z80

Seeing as one of my recent edits was edited out, can we discuss race/safety issues a little bit here to get some sort of agreement?
Someone keeps putting in a section saying visitors should avoid areas like WSBS and Mirrabooka where "African" and Aboriginal people are fighting turf warfare, or some such argument. Me, I've never seen or heard of this problem anywhere - not read about it nor experienced it personally. So I deleted it and recommend it stays that way.
On the other hand, I have personally experienced problems with Aboriginal people demanding money and cigarettes. I have got out of various scrapes in various places with by just stopping and having a chat, but this never seems to work here. A number of my acquaintances have had similar experiences, so I do strongly recommend avoiding contact with Aboriginal people on the street, unless you have appropriate cultural knowledge. (I don't really want to get into an argument about why this is the case, because there are clearly very big problems that I don't have answers to).
Maybe it is a case of noting places to avoid? Problem is, that means that the Macca's end Forrest Place would be out of bounds!
Comments? Suggestions?
58.7.196.243 19:43, 5 January 2007 (EST)
My apologies to the person who thought that the “Stay save” section I edited was racist, but I really think it is important. Today I saw a loan young Aboriginal woman, who was doing nothing at all, being assaulted by a group of 3 African young men.
As I work around these two areas, I often see this, usually about 2-3 times a week depending how much I work, and it's both sides, one day it will be Aboriginal against African, the next it will be the other way around. Mirabooka Bus Station is often closed by Secure Force or the police and buses simply have to find another place to drop their passengers (not as easy as it sounds).
It's a sad fact of our Perth society, but it does put the general public at risk and so despite the obvious racial implications people need to know this.
It should be obvious that this is just a very small element of these groups.
I don't think it's appropriate to reference this statement with police reports, news articals from 7 perth and ABC, as well as radio logs from secure force, the polce, and path transit, because it may make the problem appear larger than it really is.
Regards.. Z80
The Perth Zoo is located a very short walking distance. It would talk 5 minutes at the most. It would be a further walk to the bus stop than it would be to the zoo from Mend St.

guide[edit]

Is it at *Guide status yet? Keep smiling, Edmontonenthusiast 19:15, 3 November 2008 (EST).

I'll give this another day. If not thoughts-I'm upgrading. Keep smiling, ee talk 13:07, 4 November 2008 (EST).

perth dotm[edit]

Do you think Perth could be a DotM? Keep smiling, ee talk 19:29, 16 November 2008 (EST).

Move to just Perth?[edit]

At 1.5m inhabitants, this Perth towers way over the world's other Perths (incl. the original, a stripling of 40k), and the current name is unwieldly in the extreme. Why not move it to plain old Perth? Jpatokal 02:17, 5 June 2009 (EDT)

Considering trying this, failing objections? --inas 21:41, 5 January 2010 (EST)
Done - lets see how it works. --inas 17:26, 10 January 2010 (EST)

Eat listings[edit]

I just put all the restaurants into proper listings tags. Many have no information on what type of food or price the restaurant has. Im not familiar with some/most of them and don't live in Perth at the moment. It would be great if people could add at least a quick description as to if the food is Italian, Vietnamese, Fine dining or whatever. Also I tried to organize them into categories, useful or not? Cardboardbird 23:29, 29 January 2010 (EST)

Well almost a month and no input. I have done a bit more work today and added a few more listings for places I ate at last week during my visit. Those listings with little or no info should probably be deleted since they add nothing. I'll leave it as is for now and take a look in a few weeks. Cardboardbird 06:16, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Drink Section[edit]

I rewrote the drink section to put that long bit of prose into tags. Its not perfect but I think its closer to following the styleguide than what was there before. Like the Eat listings, there is a lot of info missing. I will see what info I can dig up online later, but since I am not in Perth right now I cant check out anything first hand. Could people have a quick look and add info they know (or delete places that have closed). I will endeavor to clean up the other sections as time permits. Thanks Cardboardbird 03:03, 1 February 2010 (EST)

Added some info today to make this more complete. But still don't know if these places are any good? Any drinkers want to do some field research? Cardboardbird 07:47, 2 March 2010 (EST)

If not Districts / Dividing it up?[edit]

Perth is not really big enough to be divided into districts like Sydney and the others, but the see section is getting pretty unwieldy with the new listings. I'm thinking about how a visitor would see or visit things so I divided them into Perth CBD and Outer suburbs. Places in the CBD are easy to get to and move between, but places elsewhere require more travel to get there (make it a day trip). I cant find much precedent in other articles, but it seems to look logical and cleaner to me. Any objections? Cardboardbird 07:47, 2 March 2010 (EST)

I actually think we could districtify Perth, particularly if Fremantle is included - and it should be, no matter that it is a separate city administratively. Virtually all travelers to Perth would regard Fremantle as a suburb of the city. I could easily see four or five Perth districts, but would leave that to Cardboardbird to propose :). I would be happy to help with mapping the districts. --Burmesedays 09:21, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
And I have just noticed that Northbridge is a separate article! Mental. --Burmesedays 09:23, 24 March 2010 (EDT)


The difficulty I see in districtifying Perth is that I cant see a neat way spit in to districts where all have enough interest to support a page on its own. Perth, Northbridge and Freo have enough things to see and do, as do the hills/swan valley and the coast. But the corridor of suburban sprawl in the middle has little going on. As a first run at it, maybe something like:
  • Perth CBD (including East Perth down to the casino and South Perth to the Zoo, maybe even to Subiaco)
  • Northbridge (Maybe also including Highgate/Mount Lawley in the cafe strip along Beufort st up to Walcot rd)
  • Fremantle
  • The Hills (Including the Swan Valley wineries, Guildford, Midland and Mundaring)
  • The Coast (Cottesloe, City Beach, Scarborough, Sorrento)
  • Everything else north/south of the river not covered by the other districts.
It's the Everything else that causes problems for me. Should it be spit into two North/South districts or combined one huge districts on one short page that lists the few fairly uninteresting (to a traveller) sights in these suburbs? Thoughts? Cardboardbird 07:45, 25 March 2010 (EDT)
Any chance you could sketch that scheme on a city map? Even a hand-drawn scheme, scanned and uploaded would help with the visualisation. We have dealt with the "uninteresting suburbs" problem before with many cities, so Perth is not unique in that respect. It does make for a dull district article, but it is probably inevitable I am afraid. --Burmesedays 01:34, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
I've sketched out my idea for where the districts would look like and put it here [1]. In doing it, I thought a Swan Valley district separate from The Hills might fit. Its often promoted at a destination on its own and there is enough content for decent pages on Guildford, Wineries and Wildflower areas. As you can see there is a great chunk of inner suburbs space in the middle where not much goes on. It might have enough interesting things to make one page on its own. Maybe this needs to be one district on its own? Cardboardbird 08:06, 12 April 2010 (EDT)

I will upload that to shared so we can see it in article here.--Burmesedays 09:05, 12 April 2010 (EDT)

Aaargh!!!! Just done so and I see it is a Google Map. That's a no-no and a breach of copyright. I will try to knock the same thing together iwth OSM - should not be too hard.--Burmesedays 09:09, 12 April 2010 (EDT)

OK. I have taken more or less the same area from OpenStreetMap (which we can use as a free source!). Can you please mark out the same areas on this one and reupload it? (use the same name - so it is a new version of the same map). I am bit confused as the road numbers are completely different? Cheers. --Burmesedays 09:37, 12 April 2010 (EDT)
Here is a new version of the map for further discussion. I got lost on the roads too. I only know names, not numbers. - Cardboardbird 06:46, 13 April 2010 (EDT)
Big coincidence.... I have just finished a draft! I managed to get the districts marked OK I think, and will upload for discussion right away. --Burmesedays 06:54, 13 April 2010 (EDT)

This is the first draft and let's get the ball rolling with comments. Several immediate comments from me:

  • The airport is bloody huge! =)
  • That bit of Inner Suburbs South, north of the Swan River seems odd.
  • If at all possible, district boundaries should follow a road - can adjust later when we have an agreed scheme.
  • Are the North, South and East boundaries arbitrary? Or ?--Burmesedays 07:28, 13 April 2010 (EDT)
The map looks good. As far as boundaries go. I'd say North to Mindarie (Mindarie Keys), South to Bibra Lake (Adventure World) and east to Chidlow (Lake Leschenaultia). This should capture all the points of interest. If it needs to be trimmed then cutting it east at Mundaring and North at Burns Beach wouldn't matter much. True, the extra bit of Inner Suburbs South over the river should be part of North. The river is always used as the dividing line. - Cardboardbird 11:37, 13 April 2010 (EDT)
All understood in principle although I am sure more questions will be forthcoming. It would also be helpful to have a list of dotted towns etc to show. I just chose some places I knew of! If you could post those here I will work on this and hopefully have something serviceable within 3 days. I also need a definitive source for route numbers as the sources disagree.... is there a state transit map you know of?--Burmesedays 11:48, 13 April 2010 (EDT)
Perhaps we can just include Rotto and Mandurah here, and get rid of Perth (region)? Sure, strictly speaking separate cities, but so is Freo. --inas 21:26, 20 April 2010 (EDT)
I'd say towns/suburbs needing a dot (apart from what's there) would be: Midland, Kalamunda, Mundaring, Cottesloe, Armadale, Guildford, Chidlow and Upper Swan. I find the WP route number page [2] to be quite accurate. This one [3] is much the same but it has pictures. - Cardboardbird 21:42, 20 April 2010 (EDT)
Any further thoughts about merging the Perth(region) into a simple Perth page? I'm trying to fill out the WA region pages and the Perth(region) doesn't look like it will cover anything that wont be covered in the (proposed) Perth districts. I can see it including Mandurah too. I'd like to get Perth districted up next (even if a map isn't ready) but it would be nice to know where it will all go. - Cardboardbird 09:35, 27 April 2010 (EDT)
My only issue will be the sheer vastness of the districted area: Mindarie to Mandurah is a very long way. And Rotto will stuff the scale up as it is so far to the west of the original proposed coverage. So, although it would be good to lose the Perth region, I can see including Mandurah and Rottnest as part of the city creating some real mapping issues.--Burmesedays 10:25, 27 April 2010 (EDT)
Aww.. come on! :-) I'm sure you (we?) can figure out the mapping issues. Insets for Rotto? I think we make the decisions that makes sense based on visitor regions, and then confront the mapping issues that come out of them. --inas 19:09, 27 April 2010 (EDT)
Point taken about the size of the map. Its quite sprawling as is. Inas' idea for having insets sounds workable. Perhaps one highlevel view of the whole region (rotto to Mundaring, Mindarie to Mandurah) with an inset of a detailed view of the Perth suburbs. This should kill two birds: Get rid of the Perth(region) and include the area down to Mandurah. I don't think travellers are using these region/district maps for navigation, more as an general orientation of what where places are in relation to other places. Are there any other maps like this on WT? - Cardboardbird 21:09, 27 April 2010 (EDT)
It is not the technical aspects of the map that concern me but the scale given the size of the proposed district. How far is it from Mandurah to Mindarrie? About 130km? That would make this city districts map larger in scope than the top level regions of many countries. I think London is the largest city districting job I have seen here, and the scope of that is about 90 km across, and required 3 different maps to make sense of it. Given that some of the Perth city districts are only 2 km across, they would be invisible on the map. That could be dealt with by insets, but there would need to be at least two - one for Rotto and one for the actual city. I can see it getting very messy.--Burmesedays 22:05, 27 April 2010 (EDT)
Well, London has three maps to deal with the issue. in Sydney, we will have the same issue, if we every agree districts. A couple of city centre districts are less that 1km wide, and the total city metro area is 90km from north to south.
In Perth, the southern extent is very coastal, so you could almost put an inset in the bottom right keeping the same width as Perth.
The area would have to be mapped as Perth (region) if we changed nothing, so if worst came to the worst we could just do the map we would have done for Perth (region), and then put a city centre region. --inas 22:13, 27 April 2010 (EDT)
Progress on districting Perth seems to have stalled. I have some free time right now so I'm considering plunging forward and building on Burmesedays' fine work to with create maps and district pages. Reflecting on the discussion so far, perhaps 2 maps might work well?; one for inner-Perth (Freo, South Perth, Perth CBD/Northbridge) and another outer-Perth (everything else including Rotto). Hopefully this can fulfil everyone's suggestions. District maps will give the finer details. Unless there are any objections, I'm going to get on it in the next few days. - Cardboardbird 23:03, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
Looking forward to seeing the results of your endeavours. --inas 23:14, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
Great to hear. Give me a shout if you have any questions about mapping. --Burmesedays 23:52, 8 June 2010 (EDT)

Stay safe[edit]

What on earth is this all about:

  • "Males walking the streets alone at night are likely to get mugged and females are very likely to get raped and robbed."

In boring old Perth? Defintiely not my experience, nor that of three people I have just asked in my office. --Burmesedays 01:28, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

Hmmm. I saw this along with a lot of similar edits on there this morning. I thought I had reverted them, but I guess it didn't take. Most definitely a grossly alarmist view on the relatively few violent crimes that happens. Sounds like someone with an agenda. Perth has no more, and probably less, violent crime than any other Australian city. I will have another go at getting this rubbish out. I'm not all that happy with the general tone of the whole stay safe section, but I will tackle that one later. Cardboardbird 07:33, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

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