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Talk:Mount Rinjani

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I cannot find a government or academic reference to an "eruption" in 1996 so I have edited the history section to show 1995 (1994-1995 instead of 1994-1996. Please see <http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=0604-03=&volpage=erupt> for a formal documentation of the history and abbreviated detail of rinjani eruptions. The wikipedia page on rinjani has a discription of formally recorded and documented eruption events including a table of those eruption events derived from formal sources. If anyone turns up formal documentation of an eruption event in 1996 then please post it also on the wikipedia discussion page to ensue the detail is not missed on that page at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Rinjani>

If I am in error here and there was a formally documented eruption of rinjani in 1996 please correct the history section of the page to reflect that but if anyone does so please do ensure that the source is a formal one and perhaps post a link or academic citation to the information on this discussion page to ensure clarity. Please do not refer to internet sites that are simply parroting or cutting and pasting from pre may 2010 versions of either the wikitravel rinjani page or the wikipedia rinjani page. It appears that most of the tourism and rinjani trekking pages are doing this, or just copying and pasting each others text.felix 05:48, 16 May 2010 (EDT)

"That repetitive detail ruined what is a very good article" ruined for ever or was the editing just delayed by a power outage?[edit]

Burmesedays I appreciate that you removed the typo repeating a date entry and also the repeat of part of the 1 May eruptive detail. However I do not think it "ruined the article". It just required an edit to adjust the text. Indeed it would not have been there for more than 30 seconds if I had not lost my internet connection on Monday morning seconds after I inadvertently uploaded the edit. I had been trying to preview a very preliminary draft but my internet connection was grindingly slow. Despite several tries I could not upload to the preview page as the connection was so slow. During the many retries I accidentally clicked on the Save page button by mistake uploading my early draft of an unfinished edit with the date typo and the repeat of the 1 May 2010 eruption detail.

I immediately saw the typo's when the page loaded but could not get back online to correct it because seconds later the power was turned off to my district. I remained off for an extended time so I gave up and went to the city. By the time I got back on-line later in the day you had already re-edited the section.

Like yourself I live in Indonesia and where I live the power goes off many times a day often for extended times, sometimes all day or all night, sometimes both. Indeed we lose our power most nights with it frequently going off just before dusk. In the last few days it has been turned on and off 10-15 times or more during the day. Also lately Telkom has been providing an even slower ADSL connection than normal and a lot of the time I cannot even download a page. Yesterday our power went off ant 07:00 in the morning and did not come back on until the evening, then came on for about 30-40 minutes and then went off again for an extended time into the night.

So thanks for cleaning up the text I uploaded, I did not intend to leave it like that. The clumsy edit just arose from an accident uploading it and I could not get online again for many hours to remedy the typos in it.

Burmesedays did you think you were deleting repetition when you deleted "March 2010 plumes rose 500 metres (1,640 ft) - 900 metres (2,953 ft)". That was a different event. Some travellers may be interested in the recent eruptive detail especially if they are planning a Rinjani trek. At least if there is reasonably current information information on in the article it can assist potential visitors to be better informed in their enquiries with the trekking and tour providers.

Also setting aside the upload error and the power outage I do not think updating the article to reflect subsequent and current events to 2010 is going to "ruin" the article. Rinjani is an active volcano with tour groups wandering about on it. Information in the article should be current is possible. I think your comments about the page being "ruined" were a little excessive.

Also you have removed some information that many travellers may find important, such as the aviation advisory detail and some of the eruptive info like the ash eruptions and ejected incandescent material being ejected and falling in and about the caldera in the beginning of May 2010.

Burmesedays you also deleted the distance conversions, I share a dislike of the cluttered typography that results from these conversions. In fact I feel close to a teeth clenching moment just looking at the cluttered type that arises from stating measurements in two different standards. However there are people in the world who do not 'think' in metric measures and no doubt some who do not understand them at all . Hence Wikipaedia has a style guide and a policy on measurements. For clarity I have cut and pasted it below.

Provide conversions from <http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Measurements>

It's easier for travelers to understand measurements if they're converted to their own country's units. For this reason, it's best to provide conversions for measurements into both metric and imperial, the two systems most widely used in the English-speaking world. If the preferred units are metric, provide imperial measurements in parentheses after. If the preferred units are imperial, provide metric measurements in parentheses. If for some reason the local unit is neither metric nor imperial, provide first metric then imperial in parentheses afterwards.

Burmesedays thank you for tidying up the edit when I could not get back on line but please understand not everyone who edits the page is going to just do a hit and run or vandalise it. A Wikitravel article is by design always going to be a work in progress and accordingly may at times be in flux.felix 21:38, 18 May 2010 (EDT)

Recent events or Current events section (proposal for inclusion in the article)[edit]

I note that despite the CVGHM warnings and the establishing of the exclusion zone of 4 km radius about Barujari that trekking groups were still being taken to the crater lake shore and the hot springs yesterday (17-18 may 2010). I understand from talking to some of the trekkers returning from the slopes that the ash eruptions were not occurring yesterday. Earlier in the week over-night trekking campers were however apparently experiencing hot ash events. Maybe the History section needs to have an accompanying Recent or Current events section to complement it. When info is no longer current or topical in such a Current events section it could be moved henceforth to the History section or deleted if it is just transient info. This would allow visitors to be better informed as to things like eruptive events (derived from official rather than anecdotal sources) and also information such as aviation advisories, exclusion zones or route closures. Certainly if I was going to climb Rinjani I would find such information of interest including that of a report of Rinjani being placed on "Stand-ny Status" by CVGHM in May 2010

ie On 5 May 2010 a possible ash plume from Rinjani rose to an altitude of 5.5 km (18,000 ft) a.s.l. and drifted 150 km NW. Accordingly the Center of Volcanology and Geological Hazard Mitigation advised that intermittent activity could produce ash plumes to 1.5 km (5,000 ft) above the caldera.. A Yellow (Level 2-Advisory) aviation alert was raised.

I heard stories of ash landing in Montong so ash was possibly also travelling SW toward the airport and entering within the approach and departure corridors. Most people travelling to Lombok arrive by air and so the provision of authoritative information on the status of Aviation Ash Alerts alerts is appropriate. With the current attention to the volcanic ash clouds in the northern hemisphere it is even more likely that travellers or interested future travellers may seek or benefit from this information. I think the Aviation Alert information (when derived from authoritative sources such as VAAC or CVGHM) is in context both in a history section and in a proposed Current events or Recent events section. felix 21:35, 18 May 2010 (EDT)

I would suggest something like this probably belongs in the Understand section. I do not think it should be called "Recent events" or anything like that as it will be impossible to maintain. It should also be concise and not too detailed. When eruptive activity gets especially serious, then the current situation can go into a warning box. --Burmesedays 21:56, 18 May 2010 (EDT)

24 may eruption activity[edit]

Hi Burmesedays. Looks like my gut feeling on Rinjani was correct as it has been erupting with ash and small lava flows since saturday. Hence my earlier editing the page with the official alerts and advisories. I think we should consider putting back some of the info again with content updated to today. My information at the time was that the trekking and guide outfits were completely ignoring the advisories and taking people to the summit, the hot springs and the lake. Well they might be getting into some hot water or something even more exciting soon. I think we should have a think about the warning panel or the Current activity section I was proposing. Your suggestion of the warning panel is good but may be unnecessarily frightening to some at this time, where as a Current activity section may be more appropriate at this time and a panel if things really heat up (sorry could not resist that). I will look into the official reports in the next hour or so PLN permitting (already off 5 times today). FYI ...Also posted this note to Burmesedays talk page and hoping there will be no more talk of ruined pages :)felix 01:03, 24 May 2010 (EDT)felix 01:28, 24 May 2010 (EDT)

Sat phone number-not a working number[edit]

I removed sat phone number as it is not a working number (086812104132),(+086812104132), (+62 86812104132)

"Tidak didaptar (not a listed number)" or similar is the response I get when I try that number.

(+86812104132 is a non active number in china)

I tried from a tekom indonesia landline, a telkomsel SIM and an XL SIM. I assume the number that is spread all over the net on travel and trekking websites is just wrong. Certainly it does not work in any reasonable variation.

However the only friend of mine who has a sat phone in indonesia has the number +628681xxxxxxx. Indonesia Mobile Satelite (prefix 8681): Zone 6 is listed at <http://oteshop.ote.gr/oteshop/pdfs/ENTELEPHONY.pdf> You will note that is the same prefix as you posted so maybe they forgot pay their bill at Rinjani or maybe they dropped it in the lava flow.felix 04:57, 24 May 2010 (EDT)

PT Pasifik Satelit Nusantara: Baru, prefix: 08681.......felix 05:04, 24 May 2010 (EDT)

Rant about inexperienced guides etc[edit]

  • I just added a few paragraphs in the "Basics" section on how to make sure the guides know what they're doing. This is based on my own experience; basically we got to one of the shelters, there was a flash thunderstorm, and these "guides" ended up shivering and cold, and so we had to turn back. Mugwump 00:00, 16 September 2010 (EDT)

Moved from article[edit]

The note below was originally a comment within the article - moving to the talk page, which is a more appropriate place for it:

Blinded the 'alternative' listing below due to hijacking by ip 202.70.58.115 on this page and the Senggigi page, this IP apparently acting on behalf of Lombok Holiday Tours and www.rinjanitrekkingclub.com
Hijacking similar to that performed by IP 202.70.58.115 was repeated again on 8 june 2010 by IP 202.70.58.152 including the removal of the earlier version of this explanatory information.
The IP 202.70.58.152 is from the same range as 202.70.58.115 that visited this page on 31 may 2010 and performed similar edits to those of 6 june 2010 on this article and also on the Lombok Senggigi article on the same day.
re: 202.70.58.152.
The Project Honey Pot system has detected behaviour from the IP address consistent with that of a mail server and dictionary attacker. Other data is associated with this IP. This interrelated data helps map spammers' networks and aids in law enforcement efforts. If you know something about this IP, please leave a comment at <http://www.projecthoneypot.org/ip_202.70.58.152?vid=i1fkn3a6of4nop0m8g1tsn1e57>.
The respective IP, and the IP range belongs to WIRELESS INDONESIA, PT SMART TELECOM, PT, country: ID, descr: Mobile Network Provider. Links, email addresses, phone numbers and physical addresses point to Domain Name: RINJANITREKKINGCLUB.COM - Registrant: PT.LOMBOK TROPIC HOLIDAYS TRAVEL SERVICE - Andi Hermansyah, Jl. Raya Senggigi 112, Senggigi, Batu Layar, Lombok Barat, 83355, Tel. +62.370692225, Fax. +62.370692225.<rtcsenaru@gmail.com>, :+62 (0) 817 5754 551 / (0) 8180 5712 752" The IP concerned is 72.52.162.209, registered to Lombok Holiday Tour at http://www.lombokholidaytour.com/. IP: 69.65.43.164. The activities of the individual associated with the respective IP occasionally uses the alias - Adietya - when flooding discussion boards and travel industry blogs with information about an 'alternative' rinjani trekking club and other related Lombok travel, tours and package information. A user - a_dudley - has also been associated with this IP 202.70.58.152.
A hijacking content example appears below:
Rinjani Trekking Club, Jl Raya Senaru - Bayan, North Lombok, +62 818 05712752 (), [1].  edit

-- Ryan • (talk) • 11:49, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

Trekking agencies[edit]

Given the warning about pre-booking present in this article, I've removed all listings without addresses in accordance with the Tour policy. Many of the remaining listings still look like they might be travel agencies, but hopefully someone with local knowledge can take a look and remove any that aren't companies that lead treks up the mountain. -- Ryan • (talk) • 11:54, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

Similarly, I've been reverting the "Trekking Rinjani" listing (URL is the same as the company name) due to some issues related to changing competitor listings and other violations of Wikitravel:Don't tout. Unless/until that company can explain what happened in edits like this and this I'd recommend against including them in this article. -- Ryan • (talk) • 19:51, 2 May 2012 (EDT)
The link that was deleted in the two edits you point to does not work for me; I get an error message that the site cannot be found. If it is dead, that would be a valid reason to delete it. However, I am in China so I cannot tell if t is actually dead or just blocked by the Great Firewall. Could someone else please check? Pashley 00:18, 3 May 2012 (EDT)
Both links worked for me. Ikan Kekek 00:27, 3 May 2012 (EDT)
I tidied things up a bit. Johns adventures is a long established provider and a key player on the mountain, he is on the main road running through Senaru. Rinjani Adventure is OK as well, it is operated by one of the previous people from the genuine Rinjani Trekking club, however we need to keep an eye on that listing as his name and web address are compromised by another operator (the same one referred to in the much earlier hijacking notes concerning Rinjani Trekking Club hijacks). In the case of Rinjani Adventure an 's' is added to the end of the URL, hence diverting the traffic to another operator. The correct address is http://www.rinjaniadventure.com/ (NOT http://www.rinjaniadventures.com/) as sometimes appears in various places. felix 19:42, 3 May 2012 (EDT)

The listings for trekking providers should be kept to a list of established providers with a depth of experience in organizing ascents. Normally the articles do not list guides or trekking providers at all. The reason they are listed in this article is both the formal park requirement for a guide, and the sometimes hazardous nature of the trekking ascents and mountain slopes. There is no need for every provider, booking service or new entrant to be listed in the article, especially if they have only been operating for a few months and have limited experience as a trekking organizer. Green Rinjani was only originally listed in the context of their tourism focussed tree planting programs, they have now ceased that activity, so that provider has been removed. Their listing was not as a mountain ascent provider, it was for walks on the slopes that included a tree planting program. -- felix (talk) 14:19, 26 April 2013 (EDT)

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