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Talk:Irish phrasebook

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This is great! --Evan 22:19, 11 Dec 2004 (EST)

Doesn't look so good to me, but I don't have time to do anything about it now. The 'phonetics' are dubious and it's ridiculous to say Irish has 'one of the least phonetic orthographies in Europe' - consider English for example! This is one of those annoying 'verities' that get vomited up over and over again, but don't meet up to objective analysis. I don't agree with 'diphthongs are generally irregular' either. What exactly is that supposed to mean?  — Moilleadóir 20:44, 26 Feb 2005 (EST)
> Diphthongs are generally irregular [...] eg, 'ai' in "Corcaigh" [...] 'ai' in "faic" (nothing) [...] the 'ai' in "haigh!" <
I agree with Moilleadóir about the dubiousness, to say the least, of this statement.
"ai" is in fact a diphthong only in the last of these three instances. There are no diphthongs in either "Corcaigh" or "faic": the "a" in Corcaigh is present as an indication that the "c" is pronounced "broad" (velarized); the "i" in "faic" is there to show that the "c" is pronounced "slender" (palatalized). Neither of these letters is itself pronounced -- any more than the "e" in English "nine" or the "g" in English "sign", though the orthography of Irish is far more consistent and logical than that of English. -- Picapica 15:54, 22 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Pseudo-Phonetics vs. IPA[edit]

I know that it is policy to only use pseudo-phonetics, but they make my head hurt. They are so badly characterized and clumsy that it amazes me that they get used at all.

Since it is policy though, they should be used. What I propose is that IPA is added as well. That way if you know IPA it's there and if you don't you still have the pseudo-phonetics.

Moilleadóir 06:05, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

You're more than welcome to come up with some better pseudo-phoneticizations. It's not a novel approach; it's what's used in almost all travellers' phrasebooks. IPA, while very precise, is also practically useless for the average English-speaking traveller. --Evan 09:44, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)
"Pseudo-phoneticizations" are also what make almost all travellers' phrasebooks an anagram of carp. -- Picapica 15:54, 22 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Stress[edit]

Apart from a few words in Munster Irish, stress is always on the first syllable, so we should not be using CAPITALS in the pseudo-phonetics except in those few cases.

Moilleadóir 06:05, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Dialect[edit]

A vexed issue. Rather than choose one I think we should try to stick to standard spelling, but allow dialect variations (marked as such). Since it shares features of Munster and Ulster dialects I think pronunciation should be based on Conamara dialect (without the extreme reductions like cathair > cáir or cá bhfuil > cáil). Similarly

Moilleadóir 06:05, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

The goal of the phrasebooks is that travellers should be able to make themselves understood. They don't have to sound like a native; they just have to be able to ask where the toilets are. --Evan 09:45, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)
Um, keen supporter of the Irish language that I am, the phrase "Where are the toilets?" will serve admirably in every part of Ireland (except possibly in the members' bar at the Celtic League, but then not too many travellers get to pay a visit, in either sense, there). -- Picapica 15:54, 22 Sep 2005 (EDT)

An[edit]

Pronouncing the n in an except before a vowel is a sure sign of 'wooden leg' Irish and it's a cruelty to inflict it on tourists, so let's not.

Moilleadóir 06:05, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)


If that's the case, then everyone in the south must speak "wooden leg" Irish, because native Munster speakers have pronounced the "n" in "an" and the "g" in "ag" every time the words occurred, although I have read many pronunciation guides that discourage this. As far as I can tell, this is a dialectic pronunciation issue, not one of foreigner vs. native speaker.

Question[edit]

Although the Ireland articles in both Wikitravel and Wikipedia suggest that Gaelic isn't strictly needed, are there parts of Ireland where people would be unlikely to speak English at all? Valentinejoesmith 14:45, 2 June 2006 (EDT)

Dear Valentine, in answer to your question: No.

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