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Shouldn't this page be at Saigon, per the article naming conventions? Very few travelers call it HCM City, and even official signs and train schedules say "Saigon". I think Saigon is the most common English name for this place. --Evan 16:30, 10 Aug 2004 (EDT)

Yeah, even though (as I recall) I'm the one who started this page as HCM, I think we should just go with Saigon.

Technically, HCM and Saigon are a bit different -- HCM is a municipality which encompasses the district of Saigon. So we could have an HCM article and a Saigon article under it, but I don't think that's necessary. -- Paul Richter 20:10, 10 Aug 2004 (EDT)

I'll cast a dissenting vote here: HCMC is the official name of the city and we should respect that in the title. In the content Saigon can also be used where applicable. Jpatokal 21:55, 10 Aug 2004 (EDT)

"Official" doesn't factor. We use the most common English name for article titles, not the official name. See Wikitravel talk:article naming conventions for discussions about this. --Evan 02:28, 11 Aug 2004 (EDT)

I'm maybe a bit paranoid and over-reacting but I think because the America and some scum bags(note, only SOME, not all) in California don't like the name Ho Chi Minh City (that's why after 30 years IATA code is still "SGN" instead of "HCM"). And to Evan, on the URL to naming convention "This version of Wikitravel is in English (but see language versions of Wikitravel), so article names should be in English. If a place doesn't have a name originally in English.." and the official name of the place right NOW is Ho Chi Minh City. Also HCMC beat Saigon on my Google News test (majority of saigon news is miss saigon, beer saigon, or "US Embassy in Saigon, South Vietnam, at 4 am April 30, 1975. It’s the holiday season"..,etc , not the place itself. And also majority if not ALL news services such as CBC, BBC, AP,etc use the word Ho Chi Minh City, not Saigon.

I'd be interested to see some numbers on HCM City being the most common English name for the city. Also, please, don't bandy about the "official" name; it doesn't factor at all. See why Wikitravel doesn't use official names for details. --Evan 22:09, 11 Dec 2004 (EST)

Update: I did a search on Google News got 1200+ hits for "Ho Chi Minh City", about 1000+ for Saigon (factoring out "Miss Saigon", "Beer Saigon", and "Little Saigon"). Most of the other hits talked about the "fall of Saigon", which would be historically accurate. Anyways, I think that's definitely good enough to leave this article here -- but we should make sure to have a redirect. --Evan 22:15, 11 Dec 2004 (EST)

[edit] Weasel coffee

I just googled and found some pages that say that the coffee fruit is eaten by weasels, not rodents. In Indonesia they have kopi luwak, which is passed through civets. Civets and weasels are both carnivores, not rodents. -phma 20:10, 10 Sep 2004 (EDT)

[edit] Closed listings

The following listings have closed. Should they reopen or relocate, please re-add to the appropriate article:

• Heart Of Darkness [1], 17b Le Thanh Ton. Based on the Cambodian equivalent, this is a friendly mid-range bar. Broadly a dance-centric "teacher-friendly" expat bar, but plays to all-comers.

[edit] Renaming of Saigon/Ho Chi Minh City

Until recently, the article said:

Saigon was officially renamed Ho Chi Minh City on May 1st 1975.

This was changed [2] to:

Saigon was officially renamed Ho Chi Minh City in June of 1976.

WikiPedia:Ho_Chi_Minh_City#Current_Vietnamese_name says:

On May 1, 1975, after the fall of South Vietnam, the now ruling communist government renamed the city after the alias of their leader, Ho Chi Minh (chu nom: 胡志明).

So I attempted a compromise:

Saigon was renamed Ho Chi Minh City after the Fall of Saigon in 1975 [3]

That was changed back, so then I tried:

Following the Fall of Saigon in 1975, Saigon was renamed Ho Chi Minh City [4]

Now, the following change has just been made and reverted [5]:

As from June of 1976, the Government of Vietnam decided to change the name of Saigon-Gia Dinh city into Hochiminh city. It's so stupid that someone always states that "Following the Fall of Saigon in 1975" as in this website; if you're a resident of Saigon, you have to know that.

For me at least, "dating" the change with respect to directly related major events/circumstances seems more important than knowing exactly what day of the week it was (especially when it was 30 years ago).

Suggestions welcome. ~ 203.144.143.4 04:13, 23 January 2008 (EST)

[edit] Food Prices

130'000 dong is £4, there is no way that's budget in Saigon. You can get food for 30'000 dong in places like the Sinh Cafe, and pretty much all the restaurants we went to in Saigon, even near the Continental we only spent 60k dong for a meal. This was in September 2007 Eraserhead1 16:43, 4 March 2008 (EST)

[edit] Tourists/Locals in bars section

Who separated the bars section? It's bad enough just segregating tourists and locals, but to have done such a bad editing job of it. It's embarrasing.

[edit] Political debacle

In the Museum of Vietnamese History listing there has been an edit war over this phrase... "unfortunately they are accompanied by signage which is both in poor English and full of risible Marxist distortions. Read up on Vietnamese history first or you'll have no idea what you're looking at." Please discuss any changes to the phrase here, before this turns into a mindless edit war. --Stefan (sertmann) ^Talk 06:43, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

What??? Having been I can confirm the "risible Marxist distortions" do not exist. IF noting how much the country suffered during the 'Vietnam' (or 'American' war) is risible & Marxist then I really wonder about Wikitravel, and whatever barrow pushing is going on. In fact the signs & guides are very restrained in what they could say. I hope other peopel will keep their political opinions to themselves and just report what may be of use to visitors. —The preceding comment was added by 222.68.248.91 (talk • contribs)

Part of the problem here is that the phrase "risible Marxist distortions" looks troublingly like good travel writing, and that its removal looks motivated by either politics or a misunderstanding of what travel writing is supposed to be. That and the fact that the original writer of said phrase was someone who was actually making a lot of positive contributions to the site... --Peter ^Talk 19:42, 19 July 2009 (EDT)

There is no need for discussion. There is no constrovercy. This is because these signs do not exist. Maybe they did. BUT THEY DO NOT NOW. Please do not revert back to previous content. If WIkitravel refuses to up-to-date contribution then it is a very low quality, inaccurate & useless. —The preceding comment was added by 219.141.183.162 (talk • contribs)

When there is disagreement, then there is need for discussion. That's just how a wiki works. The problem is that we get a lot of well-meaning edits from contributors seeking to remove (neuter) text that might be seen in anyway controversial. Instead of just removing the offending text, why not try replacing it with something just as lively. --Peter ^Talk 16:00, 22 July 2009 (EDT)

On VirtualTourist, a couple of the reviews (from as far back as 2006) note that this is the exception to the rule among HCMC museums, in that it's clear of propaganda. The printed guidebooks I've skimmed also don't have any mention of it. I'd suggest we leave it out — other HCMC museums are so full of said distortions that the original contributor may have conflated the history museum with another. Gorilla Jones 18:33, 22 July 2009 (EDT)

Thank you Gorilla. I am amazed that other people who have not visited the museum consider they are in a position to comment on what is present. I understand Wikitravel wants people to contribute, and surely those with first hand experience must be valued. Having been to the museum just under 3 weeks I ago there was nothing that could be described as risible, marxist or distortions. I will change the article now.

[edit] Hair Salons

Under the list of things to Do are hair salons. There are a handful of "beauty salons" on or near Bui Thi Xuan St. in District 1 that appear like car show rooms filled with young women in tight dresses sitting around reading magazines, but not cutting hair. I inquired with a guide and also a cab driver and was told that one could get a hair cut at these establishments as an opening to something illegal. I'm wondering if this should be appended in the article to reflect this "confirmed" observation.

According to the Wikitravel:Sex tourism policy, it's not our job to list brothels, but I've added a note. Jpatokal 22:56, 2 September 2009 (EDT)