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Talk:Fundamentals of flying

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This article has Star potential. It’s well written with great information. However, for Star status it needs both to be entirely complete and to perfectly match the Manual of style. If you see how it can be improved, please plunge forward or point it out on the talk page.


Overbooking[edit]

(moved from Talk:Tips for flying)

this may mean you have the chance of obtaining compensation if you volunteer to be bumped, or this may mean your day is made hell as the airline refuse to board you, despite having a prepaid and confirmed flight ticket

Could anyone re-state this more clearly? I'm not sure I understand the complex question well enough for simplyfing it myself.

In my experience, there may be choice on what route your flight will be changed to, but it is really rare case when traveller may decide to not fly at all, even for some compensantion. Another point I'd like to add is that, for example, Austrian Airlines offers 600EUR compensation IN ADDITION to alternative way to flight, not INSTEAD of it. I believe it would be smart to collect such experiences, as such compensation policies are internal to specific companies and are never published officially. --DenisYurkin 06:18, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Those €600 is according to the european rules for delays > 4hours. --elgaard 06:35, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
I added a short note of EU rules here and a longer on Europe --elgaard 07:11, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
Thanks for sharing info. I left a question in the talk page there, to make your paragraph there even more clear.
As for my initial request here, could you help to explain (or simplify) the piece quoted above? Thanks.
--DenisYurkin 08:24, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
I do not think it can be simplified as it depends a lot on the airline and what part of the world it is. I.e. Austrian airlines is part of Star Alliance and can get you another flight to most destinations with a short delay. But many discount airlines only have one flight a day and will probably not give you a ticket to another airline. --elgaard 08:51, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
I tried to re-state the original paragraph more explicitly, with simpler words. Let me know if I changed the meaning somewhere. --DenisYurkin 12:13, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
" should ask passengers for volunteers who decide not to flight in exchange for benefits" is unclear. What does "should" mean. Is there some regulation and if so we should have a link to it. Also I do not think it is a very european thing. I have seen it in the US and Canada but never in Europe. --elgaard 15:02, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
I don't have official info on such regulations beyond Europe, which you cited on the Europe#Passengers Rights page. Do you suggest to add US and Canada to the list?
Would the following re-phrasing be closer to truth? " may ask passengers for volunteers..." --DenisYurkin 16:20, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
I think so, and drop the Europe part. --elgaard 16:45, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
Done; check it out. --DenisYurkin 02:57, 18 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Off-loading a passenger at an In-transit point due to over-booking[edit]

I received the following email. Can anyone help with any information/advice? --DenisYurkin 03:07, 4 September 2008 (EDT)

I would like to know whether Off-loading a passenger at an In-transit point due to over-booking is permissible ?
I had undertaken a trip from Riyadh- Saudi Arabia to Cochin (Kochi-India) in-transit via Colombo-Sri lanka
Unfortunately they have forcefully diverted my trip to another airport (almost a difference of 6 hrs road journey
Between the original destination and diverted airport). I was the first passenger reported at the counter to get boarding pass to my onward Journey to Kochi. The counter staff had printed out all Boarding Passes at a stretch and distributed and 3 passengers had been provided Boarding Passes to another destination and forced to travel accordingly. Since all 3 were trapped at an In-transit point, we have no other option but to forcefully go to other airport.
The clarification given by the airline was that the Colombo-Kochi Sector was overbooked and hence they off-loaded me/others at Colombo.
My claim is that I am an Riyadh-Kochi passenger and issuing the boarding pass at in transit point at Colombo is only formality and not Subject to any off-loading. If the Colombo-Kochi flight is overbooked, the passenger originated from Colombo has to be off-loaded that too the last passenger/s reported at the counter and not an in-Transit passenger like me.
I need your kind assistance and guidance in the above case to proceed further in this regard.

boarding time[edit]

(moved from Talk:Tips for flying)

Can someone clarify what 'Boarding time' means when printed on boarding ticket? Is it 'deadline for boarding' or 'boarding starts at'? --DenisYurkin 14:06, 18 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Boarding starts at, and even then it's usually after the printed time. The gate closes (boarding stops) usually only 10-15 minutes before departure. Jpatokal 22:32, 18 Oct 2005 (EDT)


Extended Delay vs Cancelled Flight[edit]

(moved from Talk:Tips for flying)

We need a clarification in this article on what is considered an Extended/Long Delay (as used in Refund for delayed flight orOfficial Passenger Rights) vs Flight Cancellation. For example, when you have a 24-hour delay due to broken aircraft, which is promised to get repaired and then the flight by that aircraft will be provided (and any other flights by that time declared to be fully booked), is it a long delay or rather a cancelled flight? --DenisYurkin 04:47, 6 November 2006 (EST)


OK for dedicated PassengerRights page?[edit]

(moved from Talk:Tips for flying)

It looks more convenient to have all the Passenger Rights-related information in a separate page: Overbooking, Flight Cancellation, Long Delays. The main reason for separation is that passenger rights info is needed when you least expect it, unlike the rest of Tips for flying that are read once, in advance and is hardly used during your flights. I would also move there the PassengerRights section from Europe#By plane to have all the related information in one place. Anyone would object on such a separation? --DenisYurkin 06:59, 6 November 2006 (EST)

I would object. I think it's fine on this page, and the pointer in Europe should also stay where it is. Jpatokal 07:21, 6 November 2006 (EST)
Jpatokal, could you please provide your arguments more specifically? I gave mine, and can think of more. Let me show on a demo page how it may look like... --DenisYurkin 11:44, 7 November 2006 (EST)
There are only 3-4 paragraphs of information, I don't think it needs a standalone article. If you place it behind another link, even fewer people will find it. Jpatokal 11:57, 7 November 2006 (EST)
First, I would recommend taking passenger rights printed wherever you go on international trip--even for experienced fliers which Fundamentals of flying are not targeted to. You never know what kind of situation you will encounter, and you can't realistically learn all these rules, especially with specifics of "what applies to european carrier and what works worldwide" or "which carrier or flight is considered european in what situations". It's a 911-like reference, not an article you can once and remember for the rest of life. I think this alone is a good reason to have it as a separate article.
Second, along with details from PassengerRights in Europe (most of which actually belong here), it will be twice as much information.
Third, people will find it as good as they find Fundamentals of flying vs Tips for flying: if we have links to both from every relevant point, people will find it just as easily. --DenisYurkin 17:45, 31 July 2007 (EDT)

Delayed flight affected working day[edit]

(moved from Talk:Tips for flying)

I heard that according to some EU regulations, a delay in flight that overlapped working day for a passenger are subject to certain compensation. Does anyone know any official links to information like this? Any success stories known when a particular sum was compensated for a reason like this? --DenisYurkin 13:09, 7 November 2006 (EST)


Denied Boarding: Flight Cancellation or Overbooking?[edit]

(moved from Talk:Tips for flying)

I wonder how Flight Cancellation and Overbooking in this article correspond to Denied Boarding in Europe. I would vote for consistency in terminology between the two pages, if we are still not ready to merge these two sections into a single page.

And if Denied Boarding also includes Flight Cancellation, I would add a link to European passenger rights from this piece, to which European policies are an exception:

> Unlike with overbooking, passengers are not legally entitled to any compensation except the unplanned expenses of food and hotels.

--DenisYurkin 09:09, 24 February 2007 (EST)

star nomination[edit]

In the light of the Star nomination for this article, I give BUMP to my earlier suggestion to move passenger rights reference into a separate page. As all outstanding questions for this article refer to passenger rights, we will have enough time to work on them without stopping the Fundamentals to receive a Star nomination. --DenisYurkin 17:50, 31 July 2007 (EDT)

Change Title[edit]

Perhaps we should change the title of this article. It sounds more like a book you'd find at the library on how to pilot a plane. At the very least, I think the word "airline" needs to be included. MMKK 22:36, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

Concur with this suggestion...article now goes well-beyond "fundamentals" and focuses on actions by passengers. Suggestions? john henne January 2010

Good job[edit]

I found really interesting tips in this one :) Thanks to all who put work into this article. Jamboo 16:21, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Standby[edit]

I only found out about this concept recently, partly thanks to wikitravel! While I appreciate airlines probably have their own policies, is it generally possible to go on standby even if you already checked in online for your booked flight? Or once you've checked in online, are you stuck with your booked flight? --Zorn 19:13, 6 July 2009 (EDT)

As you suggest, it comes down to airline policy and fare basis. If you are permitted to go standby on an earlier flight, the fact that you have checked in online for a later flight will make no difference. The airline can and will undo that provided you have no checked baggage. --inas 02:58, 7 July 2009 (EDT)
Cheers Inas, second question of mine you've answered in 24h! I may edit the article accordingly, but I will sleep on it, perhaps it's only me the question would have occurred to. Obviously if you think it's worthwhile you can probably make a better edit than me, but I see you haven't so maybe you don't think it's a good idea... --Zorn 20:41, 7 July 2009 (EDT)

No-show fees[edit]

I suspect this is a ridiculously naive question, but I just don't take anything for granted with airlines... I'm thinking about buying a ticket (with Varig, FWIW) and it notes that there is a no-show fee of $50. Does this mean if I don't show up they will charge me an extra $50 on top of me losing what I already paid for the ticket, or is this just saying that if I manage to get a refund or want to alter the flight details they will deduct $50 from its nominal value? I can't see how it's fair for them to charge me extra for not flying (it costs less to have an empty seat on the plane than one with me in it, surely), but as I say I just don't trust any airline. If someone who knows about this could clarify this in the article I'd appreciate it. (I am not buying that ticket any more, it wasn't cheap anyway, but I'd still like to have the article cover this.) --zorn 12:37, 29 December 2009 (EST)

Finding cheap tickets[edit]

Tend to agree about quality of most content. Wonder if mention and links to third-party consolidators such as Expedia and Kayak comply with requirements for "style".

Have faint hope this topic will ever approach a mature or final condition. The industry and emerging laws/regulations may keep some sections forever in need of update. Regards, Hennejohn 20:40, 18 August 2011 (EDT)

New sub-articles[edit]

Though interesting, this article is too long. I would suggest some sections to be shortened, and the full text to be moved to Planning air travel, Airport tips and In-flight tips. /Blist 19:31, 5 September 2012 (EDT)

Article too long[edit]

For an article that claims to cover the fundamentals of a topic, this article is far to long. Reading it through would require two hours. We should move away non-essential material to sub-articles. /Blist 10:59, 28 October 2012 (EDT)

It certainly is huge.
What would be your suggested divisions? --singaporeAlice 19:40, 29 October 2012 (EDT)
As mentioned above, we can put non-essential information about flying in a series of articles named Planning air travel, At the airport and In-flight tips. /Blist 19:54, 30 October 2012 (EDT)

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