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Talk:Dalian

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Feedback[edit]

As requested in the Pub, here are a few quick thoughts on this article. First, awesome job! It is very close to star status and could probably be listed for nomination. Andrew already moved the maps to a more logical location, and I've added a more specific isIn, links to Wikipedia and Dmoz, and listed the article at guide status. In looking quickly through the article I saw at least one non-primary link under the "Sleep" section, so that should be removed in accordance with Wikitravel:External links.

If it would be useful from an organizational standpoint it might make sense to divide the article into districts - Wikitravel uses districts that are useful to travelers, so if the government districts don't make sense then perhaps some other delineation would be good. I don't know the city well enough to understand if that's appropriate, and the current length of the article isn't so great that a breakup is needed right now.

This is a great article, nice work! -- Ryan 15:03, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

This is amazing! This seems ready to be a Star if you ask me. I don't think it makes sense to district this though, as you say the article is still manageable in length and Dalian is just not that big a tourist destination. Jpatokal 21:54, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

Thanks for the feedback both of you. I'm currently thinking that it might be better to split the article into the government districts, they actually divide quite nicely and I've finally tracked down a map which shows their borders (one of the reasons I was hesitant earlier was because I only had a vague idea of how the districts broke down). I'll try it out, it's quite possible that there's not really enough info on the individual districts to warrant the division, in which case it'll be on to plan B. Currently that's "come up with a plan B".

Regarding the non-primary link, I was careful only to link to the specific hotel sites. I assume you're referring to the Hotel Nikko link [1] which is primary (the hotel is part of the JAL Hotels chain), but not the main site of the hotel. I put it in as the main site [2] seemed to be broken. I figured it best to put in an alternative until the main site was fixed. --Paul. 18:35, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

Not a star[edit]

So, this isn't a star article, since it doesn't match our Wikitravel:manual of style in several ways.

  1. It is a huge city broken up into districts, but not every district is it's own article. Is this "the exception that proves the rule"? I dunno.
  2. "See" listings aren't in Wikitravel:attraction listings format.
  3. "Do" listings aren't in attraction listings format.
  4. Both "See" and "Do" should be broken down into listings of places rather than generalisms. For example, the "Warner-Wanda Complex" should be its own listing, not buried under "Entertainment".
  5. There are no restaurant listings under "Eat".
  6. The stores listed in "Buy" should be broken out into listings.
  7. The "Drink" section doesn't name any particular bars or nightclubs.
  8. There are no hotels named in "sleep".
  9. The "Get out" listings need to be in their own articles.

I realize this is a huge city, so many of the listings are in the district articles. But most of them don't have necessary contact info (addresses, phone numbers, directions) either.

I've rolled this back. --Evan 11:27, 20 December 2006 (EST)

I'm not following you here. 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 don't apply, because this is a huge city top level article and it's supposed to give pointers into the districts, exactly like this article is doing. Look at the huge city template: "Don't give full details about each X", "Avoid specific restaurant info", "Avoid specific bar listings", "Avoid listing specific hotels", etc. If you don't like this, I suggest you go propose that on the Talk page of the template. I've rolled back your rollback. Jpatokal 12:01, 20 December 2006 (EST)
I agree that huge cities should have light listings that point to fuller listings in the district articles. The district articles, here, don't have that information. I believe with Singapore we required that district articles be stars before the huge city became a star. Is that wrong? I'm not sure you could use this article and its sub-articles to find a restaurant, book a hotel, or go to see an attraction. I just think we're stretching the definition of "star" if that's the case. --Evan 12:12, 20 December 2006 (EST)
OK, I see your point. The major difference here is that the Singapore 'front page' tries to link places directly [[Singapore/Riverside|Clarke Quay]] style, while the Dalian page just lists street names with no links and occasionally throws in a (Foobar District) with a link. But, strictly speaking, this isn't mandated by the MoS and maybe it's the template that should be clarified... Jpatokal 12:56, 20 December 2006 (EST)
Wikitravel:City_guide_status says that all distric articles should be guide status... Cacahuate 12:23, 20 December 2006 (EST)
And - for the record - they're not. The three district articles that exist (one manages to avoid scrutiny by not existing) all said "{{guide}}" at the bottom, but two of them have only a single entry (a "Splurge" one) under Eat, and one doesn't even have a single Sleep listing. I've retagged those two as {{usablecity}} and {{outline}}, because that's objectively what they are. Even for the city as whole if it were de-districted, it's still rather short on listings for places to eat or sleep. Quick quiz: I'm a "budget" traveler who just got off the train and is willing to go anywhere in the city for a meal. Name a restaurant in my price range. This article is cerainly Usable, and maybe it should be classified as a Guide, but it is not a Star article. - Todd VerBeek 16:56, 12 February 2007 (EST)

Dalian Youth Hostels[edit]

Moved out of main article' – cacahuate talk 20:07, 19 May 2007 (EDT)

Was in Dalian for a day last week and booked a room in advance at the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel on Zhongshan Qu (Warship #104).

But upon arriving at the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel I was met by a hostile (not to be confused with hostel) receptionist who refused to allow me through the front doors, claiming that FOREIGNERS ARE NOT ALLOWED at the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel!

I was with my Chinese traveling companion, and we met with the manager of the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel, reminding them that "international" usually means everyone, not just Chinese, and that the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel's racist, exclusionary policy of refusing westerners contradicted the basic tenants of YHA and HI.

They retorted that because the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel was located on a naval facility that the government had established the NO FOREIGNERS ALLOWED at the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel rule, but then how did the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel ever get authorized to use the HI logo on the front of the boat? My intuition says that they were just holding out for Chinese tour groups because that's where the real money is, but I will email HI and YHA just in case.

I should also add that the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel is located about an hour's bus ride from the train station and quite a drag to find, especially if you are carrying a big pack. I was quite p.o.'d at having to return all the way back to Shengli Square to find a luguan (cheapest one from a tout for 35rmb), since there are no other affordable accomodations in the area.

It's a real pity that the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel does not allow foreigners, or that any hotel in China has the right to refuse western guests because of the color of our skin, but I hope leaving this post will start some change.

I added a cautionary note about the place on the district page, under Sleep. Then I noticed that the other hostel listed (Haiyun International Youth Hostel) matches the (rather distinctive) description and address of DSRYH; the phone number matches too. So this has to be the same place. Another suspicious fact is that the HIYH listing says it's a member of Hosteling Intl, but HI doesn't list any hostels in Dalian. So... remove the listing? Take out the apparently false claim of HI membership? Add the cautionary note about alleged discrimination to the HIYH listing? - Todd VerBeek 20:46, 19 May 2007 (EDT)
Given the fact that we now have two editors reporting the same problem, I think we have an obligation to include a warning about it, both in the main article for the city and the listing in the district article for the hostel that was identified specifically. - Todd VerBeek 10:04, 26 May 2007 (EDT)
I think the way it's stated now in the district article is sufficient... doesn't really warrant mention in the main article, i don't think. I thought those editors were one in the same, trying to add weight to their case... but maybe I'm being cynical – cacahuate talk 15:09, 26 May 2007 (EDT)
I saw billboard ads for the ship that had the HI symbol Thursday. Unfortunately I lost my camera and all the pictures I took. There was one sign on the ship in a stairwell that had the symbol. The ship is also a museum and the museum pass I bought allowed me to walk through the area with the rooms and see inside the rooms, but there was no one there who spoke English. Gbleem 01:43, 30 July 2007 (EDT)
Trying to delete portions in Eat that are about hostels, as well as migrate the hostel info. to the appropriate district page, but each time I click on ANY edit button (including the master one at the top of the article), I don't see that text listed. Anyone can advise?Zepppep 15:20, 30 November 2009 (EST)
Seems to have been a WikiZepppep 15:22, 30 November 2009 (EST)travel cache issue.

Foreigners Restrictions - Warship hostel[edit]

Apparently loads of hostels even claiming to be "international" DO NOT ACCEPT foreigners, which is a total shame. Some even pretend to be on the international YHA and display the YHA/HI logo : it's most of the time a scam, so be careful. I'm going to talk about my personal experience, in July 2009. I had read this very Wikitravel discussion page before, but wanted to check by myself...It was a mistake, don't do the same.

I tried to stay at the Warship hostel located on a former boat advertised in the Lonely Planet (long outdated for Dalian it seems). Took about 30 minutes and 40Y to get there in cab from the railway station. The place is rather tough to find and once you're there you cannot get in if you don't look chinese. For some reason the receptionist pretended in chinese I couldn't enter because the boat was not a hostel anymore / was not safe / was full, all reasons that were clearly untrue as I could see light inside and groups of chinese people getting in. I only managed to sneak in following a group of chinese people staying there, but then problems started. I negociated about 30 minutes in half chinese / english with someone pretenting to be the manager. I couldnt even get to visit the rooms, and the team of receptionists were utterly rude to me, not to say threatening as I was refusing to leave without a decent explanation. Eventually they had to admit I couldn't get in because I was not chinese. So here's the funny thing : this international hostel does not allow foreigners to stay (?!).

I later managed to find out that apparently only upper category hotels can host foreigners in Dalian, due to some shady (racist) local law. You can bother trying by yourself if you want to have a nice piece of laugh / fight but don't expect too much and think about a B plan...

PS : Sent a mail to the LP to inform them about that matter, hope they will sort this out in an updated edition. In the meantime, I would advise to always double check their informations... Romain B., 04 January 2010

Very sorry to hear about that, although not surprised that LP is outdated and inaccurate. I cannot think of a country that interests me less than China, so please excuse my ignorance/naivety, but why do some cheap Chinese hotels not allow foreigners to stay? What is the rationale behind that nonesense?--Burmesedays 10:55, 4 January 2010 (EST)
My guess would be that in its obsession to appear clean and neat to the world, the government is passing a few laws to prevent foreigners from seeing eveything that could ternish the glittering aura It's trying to preserve... The same way they attempted to hide poverty with huge panels closing old hutong streets during Beijing Olympics. But this is just a supposition ;) Romain B., 04 January 2010

Foreign Language University[edit]

I called the number and the woman told me how to get there. I got lost but I had a local call the number and then write the name in Chinese which helped a great deal. I showed it to people who directed me to the dorm. When I got there I was told no but fortunately the girl who showed me to the dorm was able to get the woman I talked to and they let me stay. I don't know if that's policy or if they were just being nice. I thought she said 30 RMB per night. I suppose I'll find out when I leave. They did take a 100 RMB deposit. The rooms are OK and the bedding seems clean. There is a shared bathroom on my hallway, a washing machine, and showers are in the basement. Gbleem 08:11, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

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