Travel operators should be listed on the appropriate destination page(s). - Huttite 17:31, 3 Jan 2005 (EST)
This is a vacation of its own it is a lot different then going to on a airliner or train, these are cities within them self's. User:Texaswebscout
I think that cruse ships meet our rule of thumb for Wikitravel:What is an article?. I'm going to vote against deleting these. I'd like to add that it seems a tad bit agressive to me to blank the page when adding a VFD. -- Mark 17:41, 3 Jan 2005 (EST)
I also don't think each Cruise Company should be assigned an article. That's one heck of a slippery slope. Instead, I'd like to slot cruises in according to Webgeer's proposal as an itinery. So one article for Cruises which suggests regional cruises like Alaska Cruises which in turns lists and/or compares the possible carriers and other considerations in Cruising (like which stopovers you might want to ensure your cruise contains). -- Colin 18:17, 3 Jan 2005 (EST)
Perhaps we have a difference in concept, or terminology.
This is a vacation of its own it is a lot different then going to on a airliner or train, these are cities within them self's.
Only some ships are like this. Really, most of them are just big floating hotels. I do not think they are a city, or they would have at least a thousand people living on board permanently as workers and residents conducting their own businesses and lives, not just being the crew servicing the ship and passengers or else the transient tourists.
There are a whole lot of smaller travel operators who will offer you a Cruise. In reality most of them are more like a tour-bus on water and the trip lasts a few hours. If we are not careful we will find every one of them listed on this page.
Then there are a few long distance train journeys, like the Oriental Express, that almost fall into the Hotel category, where you can eat and sleep on board. (Perhaps 1 star hotels.)
I do think the page is wrongly named, and a Travel topics article would be better called Cruises or Cruising, or even Taking a Cruise. I think there is a real need for a lot of articles about Travelling by water, ranging all the way from Ocean Liners to Yachts. (BTW: This morning I discoverd you can spend 10 months sail boat racing around the world on an ocean going yacht. The Global Challenge yacht are arriving in Wellington today, 3 nautical miles apart, after sailing (racing across) the Southern Ocean.) - -- Huttite 19:00, 3 Jan 2005 (EST)
We already have a long distance train article btw. I agree that more than just specific regional cruises pages could fit into a hypothetical Cruising travel topic. -- Colin 19:05, 3 Jan 2005 (EST)
I think Cruising is an ambiguous title, perhaps its my Newzilid but to me Cruising also indicates some (undesirable) activities other than travelling on a boat, or ship. Sailing is just as ambiguous, though I would prefer to call Cruising as Going Sailing. This may be because some of my English terminology dates from the days when people spent six months in a leaky boat getting to New Zealand - the boat had sails - but you could call some of them cruise ships. Also I understand that some of these ships will (again) be wind powered. Can we avoid using Cruising as an article title? -- Huttite 19:24, 3 Jan 2005 (EST)
Maybe this disagreement is the result of a cultural difference? I get the feeling that cruise ships in North America might be really different from what you think of a cruise down under. They are in fact floating cities with thousands of crew more-or-less perminently onboard. They usually don't go anywhere particular, rather they just steam around a particular body of water for a while. There is no final destination, rather ship itself is the destination: The cruise ends exactly at the same port where it began. There was a long-running television show about these things called "Love Boat" if you don't believe me. -- Mark 01:09, 4 Jan 2005 (EST)
I have seen the "Love Boat" on TV and these ships do ply New Zealand waters, so I think I am familiar with the concept. However, I would see these vessels as being an Attraction rather than a Destination in themselves. I do not think they each really warrant a separate article, like destination might, though I do think a general article is definitely warranted.
If we do start writing articles about specific ships, where do we stop? There are 3-5 ferries that cross Cook Strait several times every day, two of them capable of carrying up to about a thousand passengers each trip. They each have a movie theatre, bar, restaurant, electronic games room and are a tourist attraction too, as they cruise the scenic Marlborough Sounds for a few hours. Do each of these vessels warrant an article? I would think more tourists use them each year than any one cruise ship, or even a fleet of cruise ships. What about doing articles on aircraft types? Buses? Taxis? How far do we go? I think the line should be drawn higher than the individual vessel or fleet. Certainly write about the general subject though. -- Huttite 02:21, 4 Jan 2005 (EST)
This page only contained a link to another page of links. There was no content.
I know I was agressive in this case, but I felt it justified. I also wanted to stop further work on these pages, so we could discuss what we are doing going down this path. -- Huttite 18:33, 3 Jan 2005 (EST)
I believe that you acted in good faith, but I think the user who created those pages did as well. That said, as far as I know the only reason to blank something which is under discussion would be the presence of a copyright violation. Other things we can work out.
For what it's worth I actually agree with you that these cruise ships really are probably attractions within their main port-of-call, but I also think that it makes sense to have some kind of aggregation of the things as well (with a geographical hierarchy) simply because there are travellers who's main interest is to go on a cruise, and who would be best served by a page listing the main cruise ports-of-call which we know about. Make sense? -- Mark 03:25, 4 Jan 2005 (EST)
Cruise Lines and Carnival Cruises - Articles that can only be apout specific travel operators. Would be far better listed in specific destination pages of the embarking port(s). -- Huttite 18:04, 3 Jan 2005 (EST)
Delete. I'm not comfortable doing this on a per-company basis. That doesn't seem like a useful way of presenting the information to the user compared to other alternatives. -- Colin 18:21, 3 Jan 2005 (EST)
Delete Carnival Cruises but keep Cruise Lines for now as an experiment to see if it works out. I'm not optimistic that Carnival Elation is useful, but I'm willing to let it sit for a year or two to prove it. In the meantime, we can leave Cruise Lines as an introduction to the topic and as an index to individual cruises. -- Colin 16:58, 22 Jun 2005 (EDT)
DO NOT Delete, it does not make sense to hide cruise ship information back on city pages. When someone wants to go on a cruise they do not care where it leaves out of. Cruise ships are there own city with 3000 people on each one. If you want to make this a well rounded travel site you have to include cruise lines. Just like any other city.
Cruise ships are really only large floating hotels - at a pinch I would agree its a resort. I now think we may need a new - water based - hierachy for these ones. Currently we do not write about Bodies of water as destinations but more as places to See and Do, etc. Cruise Lines and Cruise Ships could also be listed on regional and continental articles, in a Get around section under By boat, as they serve as a way to travel around (not over) the land in the region. Few Cruise Liners travel all around the world, most stick to a particular area or region, or ocean.
I think that is not a bad idea, some cruise ships are just attractions, and they do not go anywhere. I think the best thing to do is to add a section for cruise ships, then under that have the destinations and what cruise ships go there. All most every ship has many bars, many places to eat, ect. Also we could talk about the different rooms, because there are not very many hotels around that have 2000+ rooms.
Don't delete Cruise Lines, but do delete Carnival Cruises. I think a geographical hierachy would be better for these than a company based hierachy. In fact perhaps these really should be mainly attractions in the ship's home port-of-call, but still it seems to make a useful travel topic, no? -- Mark 01:43, 4 Jan 2005 (EST)
It seems like people do not mind having information about cruise ships, we are just debating where to put it? If that is the case I think that we should start with putting cruise ship links on the debarkation port, then as they become more popular then we can add a separate hierarchy. Because whether you want cruise ships or not on this site, you have to admit that all travel needs to be covered.
I think that it makes sense to create iteneraries for the different cruises Alaska cruise, Carribean cruise, Mediteraniun cruise etc... I think it generally fits quite well with an itenerary type of structure. (what you have to understand about doing that kind of cruise, what are the different starting locations, what are the ports of call etc... I think the cruise lines articles should be deleted. I have every intention of writing an Alaska cruise itenerary article when I have some time... -- Webgeer 18:47, 28 Apr 2005 (EDT)
Delete Carnival Cruises, keep Cruise Lines. If the amount of cruise information ever grows too large then we can debate how to handle it, but for now a single page is more than sufficient. Can a few more users add their vote so this issue can be resolved? -- Wrh2 16:06, 22 Jun 2005 (EDT)
DeleteCarnival Cruises, moveCruise Lines to Cruises, or Ocean Cruises (are there any lake cruises) I would suggest Cruising, but that has other conotations. An article on the subject of cruises could have a section on Cruise Lines, if that section became large enought it may be justified to have a spearate article. But lets start with the most general article. Now who is going to write a real article? -- Webgeer 18:15, 22 Jun 2005 (EDT)
So now that the discussion has been made, and the article saved, what article is the parent of this article? As it stands it might as well be an orphan as I doubt there is much traffic here. I only found it because I was trolling the Short Pages list.
Anybody listening? :) -- Ilkirk 12:02, 11 Oct 2005 (EDT)
In the past there has been some discussion about the possibility of merging this article with Cruise ships. As is, this article is useless. I think it would make much more sense to add another header to Cruise ships about the various lines and a quick overview of what to expect. I'm willing to reconsider especially if we can come up with a plan of attack for this article. I suggest adding ideas about how this article could be improved by adding your suggestion to the list below: -- Sapphire 00:52, 24 September 2006 (EDT)