This article has Star potential. It’s well written with great information. However, for Star status it needs both to be entirely complete and to perfectly match the Manual of style. If you see how it can be improved, please plunge forward or point it out on the talk page.
The disambiguation of "Cleveland" is ludicrous. Has anyone measured the traffic to "Cleveland" sites. This extra step to get to the 14th largest market in the US is annoying to Wikitravel users. What do we have to do to reverse this decision???
I think Cleveland, Ohio should be listed at Cleveland, since it's by far the most well-known Cleveland. --Evan 14:35, 19 Oct 2005 (EDT)
4. As an exception, if one place is so famous that the disambiguation is a hindrance rather than a help, it remains without a disambiguating parenthesized suffix. Examples: Paris is the capital of France, Paris (Texas) is a nice little prairie town in the US. Los Angeles refers to the large metropolitan area in southern California, and Los Angeles (Chile) refers to the mid-sized town south of Santiago. Peru is the country in South America; Peru (Indiana) is a town in the American Midwest.
The last exception here is a rare one. If there's a reasonable chance that people might be confused, use the disambiguators.
"The last exception is a rare one..." seems to say to me that when in doubt, disambiguate. I agree that Cleveland, Tennessee isn't anything amazing or wonderful, but it seems like I've seen plenty of other disambiguation pages that didn't live up to the rule you seem to want to apply here. Ontario for example - the province of Canada is considerably more well-known. Why disambiguate then? Am I just misunderstanding rule number 2? You always disambiguate when they are geographically seperate not matter how well-known one might be?
I don't mean to be confrontational, I just want to make sure I understand the dismabiguation process... -- Ilkirk 15:40, 19 Oct 2005 (EDT)
It's a fine-grained one, I understand. As you can see on Talk:Ontario (province), there's some debate whether the other main Ontario (a town in Orange County, mostly known for its airport) is sufficiently well known to cause any confusion. --Evan 15:59, 19 Oct 2005 (EDT)
This is pretty cool, but it'd be nice to see some more information pertinent to travellers. -- Evan 19:19, 5 Sep 2003 (PDT)
I agree with myself. This has turned out to be a very nice Web directory for all things Cleveland, and a terrible travel guide. Does anyone more familiar with Cleveland want to get in here and get a real article started? I'm starting to think that the best thing to do is tear this whole edifice of directorydom down and start anew. -- Evan 08:38, 17 Nov 2003 (PST)
I dont know from Cleveland, but took a stab at making it a little more wikitravel-ish. Majnoona
Thanks. Good example; I should have just plunged forward and started following some of those links. -- Evan 12:31, 17 Nov 2003 (PST)
Grew up in Cleveland, will try and add some information on here. Added the Cleveland sports teams to the page, will try and beef up the overall content. -- David 22 Mar 2005
The information below was moved from the main article because it applied to more than just Cleveland. The information about the city of Cleveland's schools has been left in the article, but all the other information should be moved to their respective county or city pages. -- Ilkirk 09:50, 26 Oct 2005 (EDT)
Northeast Ohio's network of 55 colleges and universities comprises the second largest concentration of educational institutions in the nation (after New York City). Outstanding university and vocational training programs, coupled with exceptional liberal arts colleges, provide abundant educational opportunities.
Northeast Ohio offers a variety of educational institutions. Among the area's colleges and universities are:
City of Cleveland
Case Western Reserve University
Cleveland State University
David N. Myers College, Cleveland
Ohio College of Podiatric Medicine, Cleveland
Cleveland Institute of Art
Capital University, Cleveland Center
Cuyahoga Community College, Cleveland
Baldwin-Wallace College, Berea
Cleveland College of Jewish Studies, Beachwood
John Carroll University, University Heights
Notre Dame College of Ohio, South Euclid
Ursuline College, Pepper Pike
University of Akron
University of Akron Community Technical College
Kent State University, Kent
Hiram College, Hiram
Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine, Rootstown
Lake Erie College, Painesville
Lakeland Community College, Willoughby
Oberlin College, Oberlin
Lorain County Community College
Malone College, Canton
Mount Union College, Alliance
Kent State University Stark Campus
Stark State College of Technology, Canton
Walsh University, North Canton
Youngstown State University
YSU College of Health Human Services
Allegheny Wesleyan College, Salem
Kent State University East Liverpool Campus
Kent State University Salem Campus
Kent State University Trumbull Campus, Warren
The College of Wooster
The "other" may have some that belong to Cleveland, but I'm unsure at this point. -- Ilkirk 14:05, 28 Oct 2005 (EDT)
The below appear all to be in the Greater Cleveland area and not the city of Cleveland itself. I also moved them because the list was absolutely huge and would like be unwieldy to a traveller. A representative selection is probably best. -- Ilkirk 14:17, 28 Oct 2005 (EDT)
The introduction to this article reads like a travel brochure produced by the city government. "Come and see for yourself"? A "world class" city? What the hell is that about? Can someone who knows something about Cleveland who isn't an idiot advertising agent change the introduction?
As a big Cleveland supporter and fan, I would admit I agree. It reads a bit like a travel brochure. 'Most golf courses per capita' should go in Do; '2nd in recreational options' to Do as well; 'fifth in number in number in the nation of major cultural resources' to Understand. NYC, Chicago, Tokyo, etc. could really brag--but they don't 'brag' in the opener. NYC's as of 10/29/09: New York (also referred to as "New York City", "NYC", "The Big Apple", or just "the City"), is the biggest city in the United States. It lies at the mouth of the Hudson River in the southernmost part of the state, which is part of the Mid-Atlantic region of the USA.
The New York Metropolitan Area spans parts of three states—lower New York, northern New Jersey, and southwestern Connecticut. It is the USA's largest metro area, with a population of 18.7 million. As of 2007, it was 5th in the world, after Tokyo, Sao Paulo, Mexico City and Seoul.
New York City is a center for media, culture, food, fashion, art, research, finance, and trade. It has one of the largest and most famous skylines on earth, dominated by the iconic Empire State Building.
A change is needed!Zepppep 16:09, 29 October 2009 (EDT)
Well, for starters, it's supposed to sound like a travel brochure. That's what this is! =) LtPowers 18:48, 29 October 2009 (EDT)
Not sure who the first "poster" was LT, but although his/her lang. may be a bit harsh, I would have to agree.
While certainly there's no judge of which city is better, New York City, Chicago and Los Angeles all have their own flavor of intro. and all do a less-over-the-top job of describing their city's unique charm better than Cleveland. I know Cleveland gets a lot of crap from its 70s-80s image and they've done a lot to turn that around, and I know they may get a lot of crap from folks further east of them (New Yorkers?) because some people somehow think "smaller is worse," but I would still have to agree with the original "poster's" statement it sounds directly from the Cleveland Tourist Board or something like that. Still, however, that's not my MAIN point.
I still think some "facts" from different magazines would be better suited to Understand, Sports, and Do. Take a look at Pittsburgh, a city often compared with Cleveland, which I might dare say has more of their article (particularly district articles) developed than C-land.My two cents' worth...maybe others have an opinion?Zepppep 12:20, 2 November 2009 (EST)
Well, if you think it's overdone, fix it. =) Not sure what else I can say. LtPowers 14:05, 2 November 2009 (EST)
I brought this up once before but Cleveland is an exceptionally confusing to city to navigate (personal experience) and I really think breaking Cleveland into districts would be wise. I'm don't know a whole lot about the Cleveland area except the Flats district is known for the bars and strip clubs, there's another hip district called the Warehouse District, University Circle, and a downtown. Would anyone more well versed in the area know of any additional districts? -- Sapphire 00:26, 3 October 2006 (EDT)
Despite living in Cleveland for fourteen years I'm not totally sure what the best districts would be. Perhaps East Side, West Side and Downtown? University Circle might be a good district, but it's a small part of the East Side and I think it's clearer to just make the whole thing one district. Thus the East Side would include University Circle, Little Italy, Shaker Square, etc. The Downtown would include the Flats, and the West Side would include things like the West Side Market, the Zoo, etc. You probably want to solicit opinions from other Clevelanders though to see if they have any ideas. -- Ryan 01:06, 3 October 2006 (EDT)
Thanks. I'll create any questionable districts in my sandbox and then merge them into the proper districts later. Where does the Warehouse District fall? -- Sapphire 01:08, 3 October 2006 (EDT)
That's down by Jacob's Field, right? I moved in 1998, and at that time the area was still being redeveloped. Anyhow, if that's right then it would be downtown. -- Ryan 01:12, 3 October 2006 (EDT)
I think it's just south of Jacob's Field. Also, should Tremont get it's own district or would a South Side suffice? -- Sapphire 01:15, 3 October 2006 (EDT)
It would probably be best to get someone else's opinion. My preference is that cities not be split into too many districts, and since the Flats, Jacobs Field, Tremont, etc are all within a mile or two of Terminal Tower I'd say they're all the same district. However, there are some advantages to using more specific districts, and if that's done then you could split downtown into the east side of the river (downtown) and the west side (flats), and create other districts for distinct areas like University Circle.
Alright, I'll send an email to the CVB there. I'll be up that area in a few days and try to swing down to Cleveland and do some scouting. -- Sapphire 01:26, 3 October 2006 (EDT)
Native Clevelander here! I just discovered this site yesterday and colored in some more detail, especially for the West Side, although I have to admit some of it might be better split off into some other sections since some of the items are in the suburbs.
In old-fashioned Cleveland tradition, I am not sure of the idea of including Tremont and Ohio City in with Downtown, as they used to be separate cities a hundred years ago and really have very distinct identities.
The 'South Side' idea is probably misleading, because we locals just don't see a 'south' side, because all we think about is whether its West or East of the Cuyahoga River.
As far as districts downtown, I can create a map to show where the districts start and end. There are several districts there, and they all seem to be listed in the Cleveland Wikipedia article.
I'd love to see this article tell a story about Cleveland that makes any newcomer feel like they could blend right in with the locals, I'd be interested in how that sits with everyone...
Another thing I'd be interested in opinions on is how to tell travelers about Cleveland without spilling out into the suburbs--since a large chunk of Cleveland life really happens in the suburbs, even if you live in the city itself, should we talk about the suburbs here--or split them into separate 'suburban districts' and have them on seperate pages? (An example would be "The Westshore Suburbs", which is generally accepted by locals as Bay Village, Westlake, North Olmsted, Rocky River, Fairview Park & Lakewood.)
If I were to break Cleveland & Western Cuyahoga County down for this site, it would probably look like this:
Downtown - I think there is enough there to talk about for one page within the area formed by the Lake, the River, and the Innerbelt (I-90).
University Circle - There's an awful lot chocked into one area here that could take almost a week to see. The Cleveland Clinic Campus and University Hospitals should probably be included too.
West Side - This would be everything west of the River in only the city (such as the Airport, the IX Center, the Zoo, Ohio City, Tremont, Old Brooklyn, etc.). Perhaps the suburbs of Brooklyn and Linndale should be tossed in there too, since they're almost surrounded by the city.
East Side - This would be everything except Downtown and University Circle, like Slavic Village, Little Italy, Shaker Square, etc. This is the part where I admit that I am a West-Sider and that I'm not sure if the East Side has enough to talk about without University Circle. More input on this would be helpful!
Westshore Suburbs - This would be Bay Village, Westlake, North Olmsted, Rocky River, Fairview Park & Lakewood.
Southwest Suburbs - Olmsted Falls, Olmsted Township, Brook Park, Berea, Middleburg Heights, Strongsville, Parma, Parma Heights, North Royalton, Seven Hills, Independence, Broadview Heights, and Brecksville. Maybe this should be broken down further???
I have no idea exactly how to divy up the east suburbs, nor do I know enough to feel like I should write lots about them. Help here would be excellent, since the East Suburbs have so much to offer!
I can also get some pictures (if I don't already have them!) to add more color to the article. Please let me know your opinions and if there is anything I can do to help further the guide since I actually live in the area! LeeHawkins 23:40, 29 December 2007 (EST)
I don't know where to verify it, but it seems unlikely that Cleveland has the most shoreline of any city in the world. Off the top of my head, it seems like at the very least Singapore would have more shoreline, since it is a fairly large island-city. —The preceding comment was added by 22.214.171.124 (talk • contribs) .
Agreed. Hyperbole like this just adds to the impression that this article is trying *way* too hard to make Cleveland sound appealing. —The preceding comment was added by 126.96.36.199 (talk • contribs)
Would Progressive Field be considered "new" having been built in 1994?
On that line, the magazine reference in Do -- Sports -- for the Indians is a bit too townie for me. I changed "many consider Progressive Field the gem of the AL" to "some..." but might recommend taking it a step further and deleting that all together. Yes, the Jake has a wonderful reputation but "many" would actually state Fenway in Boston as the "gem of the AL" (or even the entire MLB) so then this begs the question: why not just mention some of the "gem"-things about the Jake and let people decide for themselves beyond that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zepppep (talk • contribs)
Well, we do have to be careful not to neuter the language so much that it becomes boring to read. See Wikitravel:Tone. LtPowers 18:48, 29 October 2009 (EDT)