Help Wikitravel grow by contributing to an article! Learn how.
New users, please see Help or go to the Pub to ask questions.

Wikitravel:Travellers' pub

From Wikitravel
(Redirected from Pub)
Jump to: navigation, search

The Travellers' pub is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the FAQ and Help page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'.

Please add new questions at the bottom of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (~~~~) to it, but otherwise plunge forward!

  • If you have a question or suggestion about a particular article, try using talk pages to keep the discussion specific to that article.

Please sweep the pub Keeping the Pub clean is a group effort. If we have too many conversations on this page, it will get too noisy and hard to read. If you see an old conversation (i.e. dormant for a month or more) that could or should be moved to another page, please do so, and note there that it has been swept in from the pub.

  • A question regarding a destination article should be swept to that article's discussion page
  • A discussion regarding a policy or the subject of an expedition can be swept to that policy or expedition discussion page
  • A simple question asked by a user can be swept to that user's talk page, but consider if the documentation needs a quick update to make it clearer for the next user with the same question.
  • A pointer to a discussion going on elsewhere, such as a notice of a star nomination or or a request to comment on another talk page, can be removed when it is two months old. Any discussion that occurred in the pub can be swept to where the main discussion took place.

Any discussions that do not fall into any of these categories, and are not of any special importance for posterity, should be archived to Wikitravel:Travellers' pub/Archives and removed from here. If you are not sure where to put a discussion, leave it alone—it's better to spend your efforts on those that you do know where to place.

Country's official name and type of government[edit]

It seems that I and User:Ttcf have reached a impass. Ttcf argues that adding the correct type of government to the infobox and adding the official name of a country in the article will make Wikitravel more like a inferior version of Wikipedia. While I argue that it will not, and if so, what about the infobox? If adding the official name and correct type of government will make Wikitravel more like Wikipedia, than the infobox shouldn't be in the articles about countries. And then the official name, adding the countries actual name like say adding officialy, Nation of Brunei, the Abode of Peace to the article about Brunei will make WT more like WP? It's not like I'm adding the countries leader(s) or defence budget to the article. Seqqis (talk) 18:19, 30 November 2014 (EST)

I think that this may well boil down to a question of tone.
I see that you are very active and experienced at Wikipedia but that encourages dry, encyclopaedic writing.
We're a Travel Guide and should write our articles from the point of view of the traveller. We're enjoined to ""Be conversational and informal when writing articles", and told that "Lively writing is welcome. The requirement of being fair should not be taken to mean that all writing must be bland and encyclopaedic. Wikitravel should celebrate travel, and you should feel free to share the adventure and excitement of the journey and the destination through your writing. For example, North Korea's human rights situation can and should be summed up as an "Orwellian nightmare", as opposed to noting that "some organizations have expressed concern about less than full compliance to international human rights standards, a charge vigorously denied by the Foreign Ministry.""
I do indeed think that
a) it's impossible to encapsulate most country's governmental systems in a few short words appropriate to our quickbar
b) trying to do so leads to endless unproductive tussles
c} most travellers are sincerely and resolutely uninterested in whether France is a "Unitary semi-presidential constitutional republic" rather than just a common or garden variety republic. (Is there any governement that claims to operate a "non-constitutional republic"?) For those that are interested we can add the information lower down in the "Understand" section.
d) we should remove the "governement" category from the quickbar (and perhaps replace it with something succinct and factual and possibly of more interest to the traveller such as the number of murders per 100,000 residents per year or the number of overseas visitors per year or just shorten the length of the quickbar altogether by leaving one less entry...)
None of the information you keep adding to various articles is being expunged. It's just that some of the stuff about the legal drinking age for alcohol or soliciting prostitutes or screwing the locals or whether France is currently on it's Fifth Republic, deserves a different prominence lower down in the body of the article rather than as the first thing that socks you in the eye when you start reading. (And please remember that the quickbar is all you get to read in the Mobile version unless you open other headings!)
While I have this opportunity, I also sincerely doubt that most practical travellers give a hoot about what languages are "Official" (Māori is the name of a people and not their language) and which are not -they just want to know what to expect. While it may be amusing to know that England and the US have no official language (no, not even their respective versions of English) and that New Zealand has Te Reo as an official language, what's really important in a travel guide is that English should get you by in all three. These kind of interesting tidbits about quirks of language and constitutional arrangements belong in the body text - not usually in the opening paragraphs (technically our H1 heading, and what search engines give most importance to).
Do you really think that an opening of
France (Officialy the French Republic) is a country located in Western Europe. Clockwise from the north, France borders Belgium, Luxembourg and Germany to the northeast, Switzerland to the east, Italy to the south-east and Spain to the south-west, across the Pyrenees mountain range (the small country of Andorra lies in between the two countries). The Mediterranean Sea lies to the south of France, with the Principality of Monaco forming a small enclave. To the west, France has a long Atlantic Ocean coastline, while to the north lies the English Channel, across which lies the last of France's neighbours, England (part of the United Kingdom). In the Carribean, France borders the Netherlands via the French territory of Saint-Martin which borders the Dutch territory of Sint Maarten. Five oversea regions also form part of France: Martinique and Guadeloupe in the Caribbean, French Guiana in South America, and Reunion and Mayotte, both off the coast of Madagascar. Numerous French oversea territories also exist around the Earth with varying status.
(complete with TWO spelling mistakes) is better for a travel guide than
France is the country that more people enjoy visiting than any other.
France is geographically one of the most diverse countries in Europe. Its cities contain some of the greatest treasures in Europe, its countryside is prosperous and well tended and it boasts dozens of major tourist attractions, like Paris, the French Riviera, the Atlantic beaches, the winter sport resorts of the French Alps, the castles of the Loire Valley, Brittany and Normandy. France is renowned for its gastronomy (particularly wines and cheeses), history, culture and fashion.
when the "missing" information about France bordering the Netherlands and Madagascar can still be found further down the page?
Please remember that most of our country pages were seeded by material being imported from the CIA Fact Book, and in many of them that US centric, what's-important-for-preserving-diplomatic-relations-or-for-invasion purpose still shows - right down to the formulaic and often imprecise "the country" scattered throughout many articles. The lead paragraphs for most countries are well overdue a complete re-write. --Ttcf (talk) 19:04, 30 November 2014 (EST)
The govt info should be deleted from the quickbox template. We can't do it well in just a word or two and trying to just leads to edit wars - we should leave that sort of stuff to Wikipedia - especially since all of our country articles are already linked to the relevant Wikipedia article. --Babaying balikbayan (talk) 07:18, 25 January 2015 (EST)

Suvarnabhumi Airport Bangkok[edit]

Hi! I am just back from Thailand and will update Samut Songkhram, Samut Sakhon, Ratchaburi, Petchaburi, and a few other places as time permits over Christmas and New Year.

But there is another problem.................... The main airport in "Bangkok" (Suvarnabhumi) is not in Bangkok Province at all!!! It is actually in the province immediately below it, Samut Prakan. (and just over the border of Lat Krabang which is in BKK).) This can easily be confirmed by referring to Wikipedia (and many other sources).

So what do we do?

Since from what I have seen all places are written as situated. Should we move it from BKK with an easy redirection, or leave it there where it really isn't? I might add that I have updates to do on Samut Prakan also. Avemario (talk) 04:45, 23 December 2014 (EST)avemario

Hello Avemario, welcome back! We are looking forward to your updates to the articles, I am sure you had a great time exploring. With regards to the airport in Bangkok, as Suvarnabhumi airport is the main airport to reach Bangkok it should remain in the article where it is, in the description it already says that it is located about 30 km to the east of Bangkok, so we can just add Samut Prakan to the location. Thanks again for all your input! Adzas (talk) 07:10, 28 December 2014 (EST)

Caucasus region[edit]

Hello. Came across the article of Europe, looked at its map - it's like it should be, i learned at school about Europe and it looks as i have learned. Opened Caucasus region, again, it's correct, the line above reads that it is in Europe. But the article actually is linked to Asia - it is listed among Asia's regions, and it is not listed among Europe's regions. I probably have no competence to start to make such significant corrections or improvements. P.S. - why Caucasus and Turkey are in both Europe and Asia in this case is clear, explanations are provided, but all links probably should conform the maps and whole concept, while things that overlap are explained in the text --Local (talk) 14:39, 2 January 2015 (EST)

IsPartOf This article contains two instances of the template {{IsPartOf}} which make the RDF breadcrumb trail at the top of the page. Usually, pages contain only one instance and function like a hierarchy. Koavf (talk) 14:42, 2 January 2015 (EST)
Aha, indeed, it contains 2 instances. Since only 1 is visible it probably is useless. But my main point was that Caucasus region is absent in Europe's "Regions" list. I mean, it is on the map, but absent among the "Regions" in the text. --Local (talk) 14:53, 2 January 2015 (EST)

Additional information for images[edit]

Is there a suggested maximum length for a caption?

If the caption says it all, should the description repeat the caption or be left blank?

If the credit and the source would be identical should the source repeat the credit or be left blank?

Should credit be to Wikitravel ID or full name of photographer? Assuming work is being uploaded by the photographer. —The preceding comment was added by MichaelRpdx (talkcontribs)

Photos It may seem pedantic but the traveller comes first: is the caption you want to write more useful than blank space? There is no technical limit on photo captions as far as I'm aware but more than a few dozen words would probably not be useful. A caption shouldn't replace a listing and there will definitely be information that a caption would never include (like a fax number). Sourcing a photo shouldn't necessarily be the same as the credit but if they are, it's fine to put the same info. As far as credits in the caption of an article, it's probably irrelevant to most travellers who took a photo, so you could probably omit that. Koavf (talk) 12:08, 19 January 2015 (EST)

Right, OK, that clarifies the length of caption question. To clarify my question, it refers to the fields of the template one fills out when uploading an image.

Captions I don't want to be dismissive, so please don't read it this way but go for it: just try out whatever you think is best and let us know if it won't display properly or if it seems like it might be a problem. For what it's worth, I think you're doing a great job so far and you can always ask any question you want here. Koavf (talk) 12:26, 19 January 2015 (EST)
Hi, I also just left you a message on Wikitravel Shared, happy to help further if needed. Adzas (talk) 12:40, 19 January 2015 (EST)
Koavf, understood, you did not come across as dismissive at all. This falls into the "but my English isn't so good" realm. Do what you think fits and other people will come in and adjust as needed.—The preceding comment was added by MichaelRpdx (talkcontribs)

Misuse of Template:Warningbox[edit]

THere is an increasing tendency to misuse this template and cry Wolf too often and in too many places.

This is hardly surprising since both the strategic and practical advice about how to include governmental advisories at Template:Warningbox/doc is NOT linked or displayed on the actual template page itself!

I would edit the template myself - except that it has been locked so that only admins can edit it. -- 00:02, 24 January 2015 (EST)

SISAKET (Thailand)[edit]

Will someone with access please change the name of this Province from Si Saket to Sisaket, which is what is almost always written in English (see Wikipedia and many other references). Also my own personal experience in Thailand. Avemario (talk)

Hello, thanks for your message. I changed the Redirect around from Si Saket to Sisaket, but I think this area needs a bit more attention. The Sisaket Province article is also redirected to Sisaket (done quite some time ago) but the Sisaket article talks about the city and not the province, so an article for the province would need to be created as well, agree? Would you be able to assist with the content if we do? Adzas (talk) 07:15, 24 January 2015 (EST)

Thanx for that Adzas.

From what I see of all the different places in Thailand, they all used to be listed in Provinces, and then were redirected to the Cities (check some of them to see what I mean - there is a comment "redirected from .......Province" at the top.)

The only places in Thailand with separate province articles are the ones which are heavily visited by tourists, namely - Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, and Krabi. This is good because there is very much to do within the Province as well as in the city itself. But the other places are not so well visited (yet), and I think that until the writeup on a particular city becomes seriously unwieldly, maybe they should be left as they are. As it is, all the writeups list the things to see in the separate provinces, and in some cases, there are separate articles on particular towns or attractions there - eg Amphawa Floating Market, Damnoen Saduak Floating Market, Ban Ao Luek, Ban Pong, Ban Lom Sak being several in this category.

I did note one which redirects from Rayong Province, and is named "Eastern Gulf Coast". I cannot imagine why anyone would want to look at this, and indeed, from reading the edits, no one has really looked at it for years. In fact, I have never seen it until now when your suggestion made me look through Provinces, as a "tourist" who does not know the place will usually just pull up the city name and check that out.

Sisaket is not a seriously visited place at all - I have been there and done a decent update as there was little there on record at the time, and you will note that I have updated many Provincial Cities in Thailand where nothing has been done for several years, due to no one visiting there. Fortunately I have been able to do this after visiting these. Hopefully the updates will encourage people to go there, so the articles will expand naturally over time. Avemario (talk) 01:37, 25 January 2015 (EST)



Destination Docents

In other languages