Usuari Discussió:SabineCretella

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Hola! Et donem la Benvinguda a Wikitravel. Pots personalitzar i editar les teves preferències. Dóna una ullada a les nostres copyleft i Polítiques i directives, però tinguis confiança, llança't-hi i edita pàgines. Dóna un cop d'ull al manual d'estil, especialment els models d'articles per veure el format que han de tenir els articles. Si no saps com escriure amb el software wiki, dóna una ullada a la sintaxi Wiki per fer-te una idea de com editar el wiki. Si necessites ajuda, mira en la Ajuda:Índex, i si necessites informació que no trobis allí, escriu un missatge al Bar dels viatgers. --Texugo 04:23, 14 maig 2007 (EDT)

Can machine translation help?

You wrote: Hi, well I will be caring about the cities on the Amalfi Coast, mainly inserting info where no writing knowledge of Catalan is necessary.

I just wanted to try out the apertium Machine Translation - a colleague told me that it does a fairly good job and so this could maybe be of help for you:

This is the article I am translating: http://wikitravel.org/es/M%C3%A9xico

using: http://xixona.dlsi.ua.es/prototype/

This is what I get:

Altres destins Municipi de *Jaumave estat *Tamaulipas situat a 50 Quilòmetres de *Cd. Victòria Cabdal de l'estat rumb a l'estat de San Luis *Potosí. Existeixen Balnearis com El *Ojito, La Cortina, els quals són gratuïts o d'una quantitat mòdica, *albercas, *palapas i la llera natural del balneari, *tambien existeix un *rio cridat "*Nogales" el qual aquesta situat a 14 *Kilometros de la capçalera municipal de *Jaumave. Vols *precenciar el naixement d'un *rio? Doncs *ahi neix , els seus paisatges són *paradisiacos i el seu clima privilegiat. En els estats del sud-est mexicà, es troben atractius llocs com *Chiapas, *Cancún, Quintana Rosego, *Oaxaca, *Acapulco, i *Veracruz Platges com Les *Bahias de *Acapulco, *Cozumel, Illa Dones, CD Carmen *Campeche, Llocs arqueològics com *Teotihuacan en la zona central de Mèxic, La Venda en *Tabasco, *Palenque en *Chiapas, *siende aquests llocs molt atractius a la vista. En els estats com *Guanajuato , *Michoacán, Guadalajara, San Luis *Potosí , podem trobar una gran varietat d'arquitectura barroca principalment del segle XVI . [editar] Comprengui L'extensió territorial de Mèxic, és d'1 964 375 Km² dels quals 1 959 248 Km² són superfície continental i 5 127 Km² corresponen a superfície *insular. [editar] Fronteres La República Mexicana té fronteres amb els Estats Units d'Amèrica, Guatemala i *Belice, al llarg d'un total de 4 301 km distribuïts de la següent forma: Amb els Estats Units d'Amèrica, s'estén una línia *fronteriza al llarg de 3,152 km des del Monument 258 al nord-oest de *Tijuana fins a la desembocadura del Riu Brau en el Golf de Mèxic. Són estats limítrofs al nord del país: Baixa Califòrnia, Sonora, *Chihuahua, *Coahuila, Nou Lleó i *Tamaulipas. La línia *fronteriza amb Guatemala té una extensió de 956 km; amb *Belice de 193 km (No inclou 85.266 km de límit marítim en la Badia de *Chetumal). Els estats *fronterizos del sud i sud-est del país són: *Chiapas, *Tabasco, *Campeche i Quintana Rosego. (*INEGI (2006))

Please note that the words starting with * are marked as not known by the translation tool - you can also set the option that the *s are not inserted in the translated text. Last time I tried with an article of wikipedia about the German city of Nürnberg (from Spanish to Catalan) and what I was told by people of ca.wikipedia is that the translation was ok and it did not need too much time to correct the few errors. So I hope this helps.

Have a nice evening! --SabineCretella 15:34, 10 maig 2007 (EDT)

Well, basically I am in the same boat as you-- I can read it pretty well but can't write or proofread very well. I suggest you run the idea by Carmepla, who is the native speaking admin here. It seems like a good idea to me, since it could jump-start some articles, BUT, there are so few users on this version so far that I'm not sure how quickly the articles would get corrected. Another possibility, which has been discussed here is that we make a special tag message for articles that have been machine translated, so that users are encouraged up front to jump in and proofread. Certainly, if you do go ahead and do this, please leave a note at least in article's discussion page showing where the source material is from, so people can check it easily.
And anyhow, welcome to Wikitravel! Texugo 04:23, 14 maig 2007 (EDT)
Hi! I fully agree with Texugo. Automatic translations are a good idea to start-up but they always require later revisions and most of times you also have to check with the source. Since we are few people and not everybody is very regular, this could be less quick than expected. Currently, I visit the site regularly just to have a look, but I expect to devote more time as of end of June. Anyway, I like the idea and I hope more people will engage in the future and this could work as long as it's very clear. Please, let us know your decision and welcome to Wikitravel! Carmepla 15:53, 14 maig 2007 (EDT)
Well I believe that machine translated texts must be marked with a template that also leads to the original text in the other language. In this way people know that the text is probably not 100% correct and that they can help by clicking on edit and proofreading the text. There should be some kind of project page that has the links to the pages that should be translated giving also the future title of the page on ca-wikitravel. In such a way nearly anybody can help with the work, even if they hardly understand Catalan. This would lead to less work for native speakers since they can simply follow a list of machine translated texts to proof read and they do not really have to think about what they want to work on. Once the article was proof-read the template is taken away. The good side of this is: by doing so we can also get the link of the not proofread text and the finished text with proofreading to the Apertium people and they, based on the corrections, improve their tool. Over time this means you will get texts that are of increasing quality. Therefore: machine translation yes, but not hundreds of articles - maybe only 5 or so a week, so that other people can follow. Only when we note that 5 a week is not enough one can do more.
To your information: they are also working on a English-Catalan translator. The problem there is that not many people worked on it and therefore it lacks in terminology and translation rules for now. I would say: we do not use it for now, concentrate on Spanish-Catalan which is quite good and once we have everything over here and people are working for proof reading we could do one article a week or so in order to improve it so that sooner or later you have a really good tool. The English community is normally also the biggest one and therefore the English project grows exponentially.
I am copying this piece also to Carmepla. Ciao :-) --SabineCretella 13:18, 15 maig 2007 (EDT)
I am moving this discussion to the Bar dels viatgers. Please see my response there. Texugo 19:25, 15 maig 2007 (EDT)

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